The Technique Thread

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Simon, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    It's easy to break apart from any arm control. All you need is to twist your arm against your opponent's thumb (not against his 4 fingers). The thing is, when you are trying to break away from your opponent's arm control, your opponent is thinking about what to do with you next. Your opponent has put you in defense mode, he is already one step ahead of you.
     
  2. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    My comment was aimed at extending the discussion a little further. I agree context is important. Both in terms of who uses the technique, what situation it is used in, and the technical ability of the person using the technique.

    If one was to kick in the near side knee of the opponent there is a chance that they could fall on top of their own knee potentially causing serious damage to tendons etc.

    Thank you for reminding me that you have said this. I do not entirely agree with you - however given that I find the technique difficult, I agree that a bad strike is better than a bad lock.
     
  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You can do the following test yourself with your training partner. Ask your opponent to apply any arm lock on you (no striking) and see if he can successfully lock your arm. If you just image some energy is flowing through your arm, you arm will have extension intend. When your opponent tried to bend or straight your arm, don't fight against his force. You just concentrate on your "arm extension". It's very difficult for your opponent to apply any arm lock on you. Of course the head lock that you lock on your opponent's neck is a complete different story. I haven't seen anybody who can let energy to flow through his neck and has "neck extension".

    One of my friends gave a public demo. He stood on the stage and ask anybody to come on the stage to apply arm lock on him. Many people had tried. They all failed. It's not that hard to do. I do believe with proper training, almost everybody can do it.

    One old TCMA master once said, "The joint locking does not exist". He may be a bit extreme in his opinion, but he made a valid point. If your opponent is at the same level as you are, your joint locking usually won't work on him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Unless you hit him first of course....as Ueshiba said "90% of Aikido is Atemi"
     
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Some variations on entry's to the figure four I particularly like the final one as it is similar to the way that I would use a snake hand to stick to the attacker rather than actually grabbing them.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPHOY9c0Xzk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPHOY9c0Xzk[/ame]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2014
  6. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When I train the locking skill, I don't like to let my opponent to grab on my wrist so I can respond to it. I like to grab on my opponent's wrist and start my locking from there. This way, I don't have any dependency on my opponent's move as "If you do ... then I'll do ...". I prefer, "I'll do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". This kind of "I attack you first" mind set may not fit into some people's "self defense" model. Since the locking skill is taught to the police officers in Taiwan by my teacher. A police officer would never let a criminal to grab on his wrist to start with. To train that way will not be a realistic training. The police officer should decide whenever that he wants to apply the locking skill on his opponent.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVNaAu9nQg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVNaAu9nQg[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  7. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    A lot of JJJ styles work the same way. Atemi first, joint manipulation second.
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Even Royce would kick first!
     
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    hmmm. since i have nothing of my own for now, i'll post something from elsewhere in the internetz:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu6u83he_A4"]Baji fight applications : WuKong WenLu - YouTube[/ame]

    i have no idea what he's saying (halp! john?), but i think the movement itself is interesting. while i'm not 100% sold on exactly WHAT he's doing (he redirects a movement vertically without moving it off-line, and in the case of the high attack, clearly more movement is being done by the defender than the attacker, which will always result in a slower motion, compounded by it being a reaction), i like the concept, which is something also found in most karate forms worth knowing, namely that when you act on the low line or high line, there's a huge gaping hole in the opposite side, so don't linger or it can be exploited (i also happen to use double handed parrying rather often against body hits). additionally, the defense with the angled forearms can easily be used to deflect at an angle to either side, even if that particular movement is trained vertically (especially if you just add a slight sideways shift of the torso). i would have preferred to see that sort of angled defense demonstrated, and the upward motion used against the high attack (which can then be followed by the elbow that follows in the formal sequence, which is incidentally what the baji guys i trained with in helsinki do*), but i guess to kickstart a discussion, it'll do :p

    *as seen here: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kcad39Dhpg"]Baji Intro Seminar - YouTube[/ame]

    and in some parts here: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmENW6obCyE"]Baji Applications - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Thanks for posting fish.

    This is the first time I have seen this technique. Personally I like it. Looking at it I would say that for me the key is the little slide backwards the defender does on the first punch. This is used allot in hung gar. It buys time for you to attack the incoming limb. The intent is to slide back and then roll forwards. Think of a wave drawing back then rolling forward over the top. The downward hit on the arm produces a slight dragging effect which can pull the opponent off balance and bring the chin forward and up exposing the target for the counter strike. Power for the counterstrike is generated by closing and opening the back - again something that is done allot in hung kuen.

    In terms of reactive v's proactive, the intent looks to be to wait for the attackers lead punch, to hit the limb as it comes in, unbalance the opponent on first contact, then follow up with the counterstrike. In this sense the movement is reactive although you have the entire motion in you head (roll back then forward) before you begin to move so the intent is proactive.

    There may also be versions where you could attack forward in a double wave motion, first wave knocks down the guard second wave hits the chin. But I think that this would be much harder to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    well, the thing is, you have to be expecting an attack for that to work, because then you lead the opponent into attacking where you want him to, but against something you're not expecting, not so much. this is why i like what the helsinki folks do, as they aim to basically charge forwards whatever happens, so the high move ends up being a flinch reaction, such as what jwt trains, done while lunging forwards rather than backwards, and then they just batter you with elbows from clinch range.

    another related detail is that to use the downwards move, you have to have your hands up in the first place, which won't always be the case, or else you have to raise them first to then bring them down. this again is two motions against one and makes you significantly slower. i could however see this working as a reaction against a grab (whether it's practical or not i couldn't say, without experimenting, however), by using a downwards jolt to try to interrupt whatever would happen after the grab (say, wrist grab + haymaker to the face), and then "bouncing" the hands up to cover the high line, hopefully catching the guy in the face and/or breaking the grip in the process. then you grab him and elbow him or whatever.
     
  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    sooo... anyone else? also, i may have something in a week or so, as i'm meeting up tomorrow with a friend who i might be able to get to help me out with making another vid.
     
  14. Heikki Mustola

    Heikki Mustola Valued Member

    Just to ask if anyone else has had similar problem..

    Sometimes, not always, but I've had this problem around 3-4 times in bit over a year:

    I do a takedown, the one where you put your knee on the ground first. Sometimes during that, I have felt sharp, kinda slashing pain in my knee. First time I had it, I got scared that I injured something, told about it to my coach and he told me to get that training day off. Knee wasn't in pain for too long time after it though. In other times it happened, pain mostly happened during those takedown attempts, but not during anything else. Anyone else experiencing this?? It doesn't happen if I try to do a takedown without putting my knee on the ground.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'll get another video shot either on Tuesday or next Sunday.

    It'll be on the lead hand shovel hook or uppercut, followed by lead hook.

    It would be nice to have a Karate or TKD guy* do a video covering a kick.

    *Mitch, I'm looking at you. :D
     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Don't train those throws. It makes no sense to hurt yourself in training. I don't train the following throw for the same reason as you have stated.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PsyNCD1pQQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PsyNCD1pQQ[/ame]

    Even the solo training can hurt your knee too.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95kE21OIK1c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95kE21OIK1c[/ame]
     
  17. Heikki Mustola

    Heikki Mustola Valued Member

    Sorry, I didn't epxlain it very good, but I meant regular double leg takedown, like this:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxNAEByjOoA"]Double Leg Takedown: Basic Neutral Wrestling Moves and Technique For Beginners - YouTube[/ame]

    See how in the very first moment, he dives in with his knee which he puts on the ground.. It happens sometimes when I do that

    It doesn't always happen. But it does sometimes and it scares me a bit, since I have almost an phobia for injuries
     
  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When you apply "double legs", you don't need to drop your knee on the ground if you don't want to.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eulb4lWmnXc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eulb4lWmnXc[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCGEkQMxok"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCGEkQMxok[/ame]
     
  19. Heikki Mustola

    Heikki Mustola Valued Member

    True, but It feels like I can do it more effectively if I do so. When I dont put the knee on the ground, I feel like I fail more often. But i dont know, maybe I just need to get used to it, definitely dont want to get any knee injury
     
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'd rather keep this thread about our own videos, but you can use the knees to the ground approach to your advantage.

    This is my preferred approach. From 1.30.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgZbe-BHIs0"]Catch as catch can wrestling - Kristijan Simeunovic.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014

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