Ah, makes more sense with the edit! It's funny how these things work. Like when someone from a different art starts training with you, it's always the techniques that appear most similar, but with important mechanical differences, that are the hardest to assimilate.
Reminds me of a time years ago; an old instructor of mine did WC previously and one evening he showed me some basic WC trapping and striking. No matter how much I thought I was doing exactly what he showed me he'd say "No! You're still doing Marbo!". ...That was before I had more conceptual perspective, and, just like you say, couldn't help the muscle memory kicking off from familiar reference points.
It's quiet round here and I had a rare chance to pack the old camcorder with my training gear last night So here's a basic technique from traditional jujutsu, it's similar to osoto-gari in judo I think https://vimeo.com/213817892 And a counter from the same style https://vimeo.com/213820343 Be great to hear what people think and how it could be improved
Interesting to see things with the same basic mechanic done in such a different way. All I can say is that the counter only works by virtue of the grips you use, and how you distribute your weight at the end of the technique. You can do the trip/throw in such a way as to make that counter virtually impossible.
Agreed. Reminds me, too, of the "beset" sweep in silat. Perhaps by stepping in deep, you could make him fall/slide/trip off your thigh in such a way that he can't drag you down?
Yup you need the grips and a very committed throw for the counter The technique is to grip underneath the armpit (causing pain) and leave your front leg forward to tempt a big attack
I was thinking more pinning/grabbing your opponent in a way that doesn't allow them to get leverage on you once they're down. Also to keep your base once they're down so that you can resist pulling/pushing in all directions.
How related is the technique when you kick up and roll them over your leg? I've got that to work sparring some people outside my system.
Indeed! Thinking about your stepping deeper comment though - I certainly think you want to get your hips lower than your opponent, as when it gets scrappy and real you can't always rely on completely off-balancing with your arms, and when you're in the position whereby both can feasibly do the takedown it's the one with the lower base that invariably wins.
In TJJ here are a lot of variations and applications of those kind of things and yes including sideways - I can't think of any as a counter to osoto 'though Also kicking the groin and kicking the opponent off line from below if they base and resist the takedown
If you watch yourself go down in the 2nd video around 20 seconds in, you can see your right leg come up. If you capitalise on that spin and are flexible enough to get your foot up, you can do it from there. It does depend on how forward the weight of the person taking you down is though.
Ahh Ok I see what you mean - That was showing how not to do it (the sound probably isn't great) the space is too much there, his balance is OK and it's easily countered Generally if that happens we kick the ribs