The Strength in Your Technique?

Training, for me, is alot of fun when I feel strong and full of energy - and I try to make sure I feel like that at each class. However, sometimes, for whatever reason, I'm not feeling at my best. At these times I can occassionally find that techniques which I thought I could execute perfectly, were in fact relying on my physical strength to work.
I know that army training courses sometimes use exhaustion exercises before combat training to simulate a realistic environment... given that a self defense situation could come up at any time (e.g. on your way to work in the morning when you haven't really woken up yet) and not just when you're feeling in top condition, how much emphasis do you put on your pure technique as opposed to strength? How do you incorporate this 'exhaustion' factor into your training?

On a related note, to the larger MAPers out there, do you ever find it difficult to find opponents big/strong enough to force you to stop relying on strength? I'm 6'2", about 265lbs, fairly big, fairly strong, but always aware that there's bigger fish out there 'on the streets' waiting to trollop me.

Anyone got similar issues? How did you get round them?

 

this is actually a big worry... you know one of my freind is around 120kgs yet fast n furious, when I was up against him, i had no idea how to deal with him.. I knew either I had to be more powerful than him or faster than him...
it's crazy... he's still faster n powerful than me.
but I got around to this because of my footwork, I noticed he can't switch to his sides and started wokring on his sides... worked hard and then I started getting him off foot... yet fighting him scares a lot...
then later I workd up a theory about 6 months training on one technique... it's kind a odd but very useful..
I wrote about that like couple of years ago here on MAP..
http://www.lifestyledecision.com/Sports_Martial/kungfu-useless.html
-TkdWarrior-

 

Just be better

Tall people struggle more on the floor if you do floor work, they also are less apt at defending there lower legs - this is a generalisation but many I fight are.

Take people out of there comfort zone and stick to your game plan.

 

The short answer is it's up to you to make the choice to work technique.

At 5'9" and around 165 lbs, I'm neither the biggest or the baddest out there. However I've had a pretty relivant experince. A few years ago I was in a school tournament, and due to my relative size and weight I was bumped into the "lightweight category." However, I outweighted the nearest person by approximately 30 pounds (at least).

I started to grapple with my first competitor and he attempted to throw an arm bar on me. It wasn't set correctly, but I reacted against it, curling my arm in... and proceeded to pick the kid off the ground, him still trying to get the lock. And that was a strange, strange moment. I had this kid suspended on my arm. And it occured to me that I could simply based on weight force a submission.

At moment I made the decision to play this straight and take strength out of the equasion. So we rolled to the limit and he beat me on points. But I respect that loss far more than if I had just blown through the division on strength.

- Matt

 

a good martial artist will not rely on just strength or size, just becasue you are bigger and stronger than someone dosent mean you can beat them. when sparring you should rely on skill not force to win if you use force to win in sparring then it means you cannot fight

 

If you use force and strength to win you win. It needs skill to be fully effective but the simple stuff works and strength and weight - if you have it use it, its silly not to.

On the street people wont go easy and its counter productive to teach yourself out of using your natural advantages.

I encourage people to train and fight on there natural ability, using reach, strength, cardio as well as skill and all the rest.

Using force does mean you can fight as you still need to land punches and a good fighter will do well against a stronger one in sparring provided the skill gap is different enough but not using it is wrong so long as its within reason and using control.

 

Thanks everyone, and I really appreciate the feedback. I think I may need to refine my questions slightly just to express myself better. To give some more information on the situation.... I'm not really talking about a mental decision not to rely on brute force, I made that decision a long time ago. What I mean is that, all techniques have a very precise correct way of executing them, which is far more effective and involves far less force to work than any variant (i.e. pressing a point 1mm to the left of where you meant to).

What I really mean by this is that in my classes, I can resist everyone else if they're doing a technique incorrectly and give them active feedback so they know ecactly when they are doing it properly. I.e. If a big strong guy comes into class and he is putting too much strength and tension into his techniques, I can [a] tell that he's doing it and show him that doing the technique properly is more effective. My difficulty is that people tend to crumble under my techniques and it's very difficult to get feedback as to whether or not I'm doing it perfectly, and worse, it's hard for me to tell myself! I'm not a wildly sloppy, big, ugly mug - and I always considered myself a precision/technique martial artist and what I'm talking about is on quite a subtle level. The difficulty is that one day I wasn't feeling too good (i.e. could just about lift my own arms ), but decided to take class anyway. When I was demonstrating techniques I personally felt like they weren't working the way I'd have liked them to. This raised the obvious question as to whether my techniques relied more on strength than I thought? I take this quite seriously because one of the reasons I do the TMA that I do is the idea that even when I'm old, tired or generally unwell that I would still retain enough skill to be a good martial artist. Naturally I am now questioning how can I replicate this 'feeling bad' effect in my training?
To Leo: I agree completely, there's a ceiling to how far you can go with strength alone and it's better in the long term to be skillful (although I'm not really talking about sparring here, more SD, so it's not an honour thing it's a not getting killed thing, and unskilled strong people are still dangerous opponents ).
To Matt: Thanks for the post, you answered the question I asked perfectly. I think this post explains the problem better - it's a more subtle problem than just deciding whether or not to use brute force. I'm kind of wondering if anyone has any training methods which help them to remove strength from the equation. E.g. This army method of occassionally doing exhaustion drills before practice intrigues me.

Thanks again everyone

 

Agreed, and if someone attacks me when I'm feeling paricularily good, fit and strong, then god help them. However, I've been doing MA for a long time and I'm looking to perfect everything, and this is just an issue that's playing on my mind lately. Strength and cardio might be your natural advantages but what if you get attacked the morning after a hard night on the town or when you're a bit ill. Is your technique good enough to hold up, especially given an SD situation where there's no guarantee that you only have one opponent, and no guarantee that they are anywhere close to you size/weight wise?

 

I could not comment depending on the situation but I have been hit on the blind side and out numbererd (after a few beers as well) and came out well.

I would say I am pretty avarage but I know a lot of dirty fighting techniques that would give me a good advantage over perhaps the avarage jo.

It has worked well so far but Cardio is not one of my strong points, I conserve engergy and tend to be more a burst fighter. Cardio I need to work on a lot.

 

perhaps i didnt make my self as clear as i intended, i think useing skill is much better than force when sparring for two reasons, one it is more humane (not quite the word im looking for) there is nothing impressive or honary about smashing the daylights out of someone who isnt agressing you. two skill is not just the form in your strikes it is tactics and dodging/blocking. it was said that he finds it hard when sparring to find someone bigger and stronger tahn him but he can on the steets, therefore he should concentrate on skill in tegh club so he has an advantage over stronger oponents.

 

Which is as I said a few posts ago. However strength and power also presence and assertiveness are required in sparring. The intention and solid ness can be there with out needing to leather each other.

Sparring is fairly different to the street as many people sparr under set rules. No grappling, No low kicks etc. Reason he is finding it difficult as the rules used at many clubs make sparring even. You have less artisitic licence and there is less fear because the situation is not real.

I spar fairly casually but in competition or real situations I am head down and straight in (obviously in defence :Angel: ) but avoiding strength even in sparring is bad in my view as you should not train yourself out of what comes natural.

 

Dont worry too much, your adrenaline would replace your strength. That's why my instructors prefer teaching subtlety rather than strength for techniques,because the strength will come with the rush.

 

The rush is one of the things you need to learn to control though as that is when you are not in full control - for me if the rush sets in the its tunnel vision on the one person.

I really have to keep mine in check

 

There is several stages of "The Rush". Im Talking About the basic adrenaline rush that empowers you enough that you feel energised at first and tired after. I Have experienced the higher stages however of "The Rush" And been completely overtaken with bloodlust,creepy things happen once you get there,it's scary,and i'm not kidding.

 

The adrenal "rush" does indeed energise the muscles, but as Sonshu pointed out, it does have its draw backs.

Another problem with relying on this "rush" is conditioning. After awhile you will get less and less of a rush as you expose yourself to situations that cause this rush.

 

The Rush does often - I still get it come with a free side order of Tunnel Vision.

Its a shame but I am no expert in controlling it but I often try to avoid it to keep my body doing what it naturally does rahter than going into "MEAT FIST MODE" and just smashing at people.

 

So True. I Dont rely on it though, i'm just stating that it will usually give you the 'Pick-Me-Up' That You need. Also,with training comes muscle memory,and if you know the technique and you have practiced it you needn't worry aboot not doing it right,instinct will help you also.

 

Thread closed on request of originator.