The Rataca's questions on TKD thread.

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Rataca100, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Its unusual for the ones i ahve been to. ITs usualyl warmup, thats the exercise you usually do in Martial arts, this did a designated exercise peroid because that was the first half of what ever you went to. Still doesn't change the fact it was a mcdojo or useless.

    Well, they have a disclaimer you dont have to grade, but im pretty sure your progress will be stunted if you dont. Also i am not wasting £30 on a grading and Dobok if i wont be confident of getting the next belt. (both individually are that price+)
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Then the kata does serve a purpose: to ensure you don't waste that money and get your next grade.
  3. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    So, you've been there once, they did circuit training and because of that they're useless and a McDojo?
  4. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Dont know where you got that assumption from. I dont recall putting that down as a i reson i wouldn't pay for it on a contract. (sign of a mc dojo, needing a contract)

    I went there twice, did it once, watched once, decided it was worthless and needed a contract to go. Its knife defence was worthless and that was the only self defence thing there, another mc dojo sign, no pressure testing of techniques and it didnt do all it advertised. Its cost in terms fo fitness (which was the circuits) was the same as the martial art/it was a package and it was not worth it, the money would be spent better with a pay as you train personal trainer at a gym. :p If it was good, or what ever they didnt do a good job at selling it to me and the end result is the same, what i observed and did was crap. This was after i left/stopped going to the GTUK TKD or during one of my off times in going. So not something recent perhaps last year.

    Oh another big red flag for Mc dojo, it was its own style, it was a independent club with a independent style/system. I dont even know if it was Karate or not because that was another thing it had on its page, i would link it but its a town thing and i would opt for that to remain private as long as possble. Mitch might know though. :p
  5. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    I have no idea for the stats in the City, i believe they are higher than my towns ones. Do you have a hunch as to my town by any chance? XP I still dont trust there especially if i take away somone going with me and add it being unsocial hours which get dark in winter and a foreign area of a city i dont live in. Saturdays would be better, busses run and there is more leeway with buses and trains and shops open.

    (going to look for the stats on the police website now)
  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    A contract is a sign of a McDojo?
    My guess is, that 90% of the clubs here require you to sign a contract, if you want to keep training there.

    So, you basically mean it was worthless for you?

    If it was an MMA Gym (it was, right?), why would you expect SD techniques? Shouldn't it be focusing more on the sport side in that case?
    Personally, I'd be more surprised if a dojo, that focuses on MMA, which after all is sport fighting rulebook, would have massively SD training.
    Pressure testing is a sport gym should be sparring not scenario.
    Also, personally I connect MMA with competitions, which is quite a good reason for circuit training.

    And what makes you know, that the knife defense really was bad and not only you thinking that of it?
    A little prior TKD isn't the best measurement for that.

    EDIT: As mentioned before, I travel 90 minutes one way (back due to waiting times longer).
    I'm also from a small town and train in a big one.
    But it's so unlikely that something will happen, that I will be damned to live a life a fear and that this fear will be stopping from doing things I enjoy.
  7. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Contract as in 6 months you have to pay for irrelivent if you go for those 6 months, not like lump sum you pay for a month or per session with no binding to contionue after that month. Which is a red flag. the GTUK school is pay as you train the TAGB school is monthly based. (no fixed contracts for lessions) I dislike contracts, i love pay as you train because thatsfair and logical, i pay for the lesssons i do not theoretically will do. (monlty pay as you go is at least acceptable, rather than a forced contract for 6 months+ at what ever price)

    It wasnt MMA, it used the words MMA as an advertisement. It was somones own creation of a martial art/combination. It also advertised self defence and had no orginzation above hosting hosting competitions, that i knew of anyway. I dont think ti advertised sport either.

    In fairness i did a TKD self defence class as one of the last things i did with TKD before i left it. I didnt get to do weapons with it how ever.

    My basis for the knife defence is, if i was going to fight them with a real knife, i would kill them with it (maim at least). It was not pressure tested, and used the obvious assumptions on knife combat and was arbitrary over used attacks, if i was allowed free reign to do more sparing with a practice knife they would have gotten out without a severe injury. If there is one thing i can do right, its at least attacking with weapons.* I also have my own research into knife fighting and common sense

    *Thats not hyping myself up either, i dont have so much technique under pressure, but i do enjoy and adore weapons. One of the reasons why i think i would like a good arnis school (is that just FMA now days?) and really want to go to a General HEMA school to learn weapons fighting and just do weapons martial arts. Then again, i dont need technique to kill somone witha Ka-bar. :p

    On the TKD self defence can somone expalin that to me? Apparently, it was practical use of TKD principles, the lesson was a walk through the movements with no partner then the rest was doing it with a partner, the strangle (one of the clearer ones in my memory) seemed like it would work and was taken from SD 101 ratehr than TKD though. It was pretty fun. that question is given to the TKD black belts/teachers here. :p I do wish to learn more about that aspect of TKD the Self defence and "combat patterns" in it.
  8. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Contracts are totally normal here. You sign them for a year and (mostly) can leave them, if you write a termination notice at least three months prior; they also extend for another 6-12 months (depending on the contract) automatically.
    Since most people actually go regularly and not just once every other month I don't see them as a rip-off either.

    Makes me wonder, how that works in other countries though.

    Well, since you said, it was an MMA gym, I expected it to be one.

    You should also realize, that as soon as knives come into play, there is 99,9% chance that you will get hurt at the very least.
    There is no sure way to defend against a knife.
    Especially not, as soon as someone is actually wielding it and not only stabbing all now and then.

    I was told of a Karate or TKD defense against a knife once (or it was shown by a Karateka or Taekwondoin): The attacker would have the knife in his hand, and the defender would just do a light kick against it; because no matter what, the knife would be flying away and the attacker being in awe.
    So maybe it's not only bad, if some techniques are "only" known from SD-courses (which, btw, should include more then the moment when everything already deescalated), but not from tha art itself.
    At least in case, some Karateka or Taekwondoin really believes in the above technique :oops:
  9. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'm in the US. I've seen a variety of setups. When I was younger contracts were 6-12 months (maybe 25 years ago?)
    Recently, I've seen mostly month-to-month. You sign up, you may need to pay an initial sign-up fee, and then it is generally month-to-month after that, cancel anytime or cancel with 30 days notice (depends on the place).
    This is across 6 places I've trained at in the past few years (2 Muay Thai gyms, 1 BJJ gym, 1 JJJ dojo, 1 Aikido dojo, 1 Judo club).
  10. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Contracts have been standard for a long time depending on the club and the hall rental.
    For clubs I attended based in school grounds, there were often contracted based on the school term length 11-12 weeks, other branches of the same club were based in a leisure centre and you could pay on a day by day basis after paying for the insurance.

    I've seen more places have a direct debit contract for the logistics of not wasting 10-15 minutes between each class sorting out who's paid what for the class.
    I would say the only time it could be classed as a McDojo is if you were paying up front for the lesson fee for a year, or more - I have read about some places saying you pay up front for lessons to black belt (which I've need seen myself in local clubs).
  11. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Im skepticval of contracts and it is still a sign of a mcdojo, as some are hard to get out of, i would never do a year long contract. This was the second place i looked at and it was a actual contract it wasnt paying for a month at a time. For gyms as well, i still like the pay as you train gyms because then you are actually paying for what you use. Personal prefrence and its a warning sign of a mc dojo. (some are just terrible contracts which is reason enough not to go to them) Cant comment on gyms, but the most recent two i have shown intrest in are pay as you train. Just to make the distinction i do mean a legal contract and not you paying for a months worth of lessons or a years worth each month/year. Someone could back me up in sayig contracts are a sign of a mcdojo as its a means to get money.

    I know, the only defence for a knife is a knife or a longer weapon than it, you should know i am a advocate for self defence weapons. It wasnt kicking, it was i belive a Defendu technique, rather than a TKD creation. Most of the other ones looked like they where just self defence tings from a actual self defence ciriculem outside of TKD.

    I did quote "MMA" when i refered to it.

    Different cultures and law in regards to contracts and consumer rights.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'd only sign a contract for membership if the "thing" in question was open every day from 7-10. Like a gym. That way I can make use of it on my own terms and cater for the vagaries of life. Work, illness, children, etc.
    Signing a contract to a place that only teaches a couple of times a week at set times doesn't seem quite right to me. Great for the instructor no doubt but not so great for anyone that can't awlays do the same thing every Thursday and Tuesday night.
    Rataca100 and Knee Rider like this.
  13. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Yeah a contract is not a sign of a mcdojo. Its actually fairly common.

    I don't like them as I like to be able to change my training venue when I want but I understand the value of them for a gym owner who would like committed students and sustainable secure income.

    Many full time facilities have them. Gracie barra does for example.
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Contracts are pretty standard for anyone with a full time location, usually the cancelation fee in the first year is around one month's membership so they are not exceptionally binding, I imagine they're more hassle then they're worth for a twice a week in a sports hall kinda club though.

    Also you don't like them, because your never going to train for more then a week at a time, you seem to like the idea of martial arts, but not the reality of them.
    Latikos, axelb and Knee Rider like this.
  15. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Contracts are a sign commitment and assurance to reimburse the martial arts club for the effort off teaching if you cancel, if you're scared of contacts, you fear commitment.
    Latikos and Dead_pool like this.
  16. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    This isnt a full time facility, it is a rented hall from a school. And i saw on a thread about contracts the same sort of thing about it being common for gyms and full time locations which are open like normal businesses.

    Contracts are still on my low list as i dont like the idea of paying BEFORE i have done something i am paying for. Pay as you train is just as common or more. :p

    Its also my consumer right to not use any service i disagree with either or have a dispute in its cost etc. Just to be clear, i am not going to that one and it was last year when i looked at it i think.
  17. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It absolutely is your right.

    Just to be clear though, contract does not mean mcdojo.

    As an aside perhaps having a prearranged financial obligation might serve as a motivating factor for you.
    Latikos, Dead_pool and Hannibal like this.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh how things have changed.....time was you were lucky to have someone teach you and you had to pay dues to even get over the door

    I suppose thats why now we have hobbysists more that artists

    For what its worth I personally would refuse to teach you Rataca - your cup is already full and it would be a waste of a vintage

    There will be places you can find I am sure, but you will never stay because you think you know what you want is what you need

    It isn't
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  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

  20. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    I didnt say it meant that, and that was not the only reason. And it wouldnt and i know it wouldnt. I would not want to place a possible economic burden on myself.

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