The Power of Chi

Dear all,

My apologies if i've caused any negitivity.
All I was doing was expressing a concern that there are certain unscrupulous persons making claims that they can't backup.
But there is always one silly litte man that feels the need to believe in fantasy, Pablo is obviously the one on this forum.
I thought that maybe this forum would not have these ignorant people on them, however I see that where ever I turn I am confronted by fools & madmen!.
Again my apologies, I will in future keep my opinions to myself.


Pablo,
I thought a man of your mature years would no longer believe in Santa Claus!
It saddens me, no concerns me that you have any contact with law inforcement apart from getting locked up for narcotics abuse.
I suggest that you maybe pinch yourself. Because i'm sorry to tell you that we live in reality not in your fantasy world!

If you have any further comments to make to me then please PM me, as I don't really think the others here want or need to listen to your inane babble!

Good luck in your journey Bilbo, sorry Pablo.

 

Tseek Choi

Hi Colin,

You have posted some really useful and interesting comments on this thread.

The previous post is/was/should be beneath you. I understand that you may feel a little 'ganged up' on, and attacked personally yourself, but don't take off into the jungle armed only with a combat knife.

You represent yourself, your art, and others who practice that art here!

Andy

 

Melanie,
Okay not alot of room can't write a story so here are some personal beleifs:
1. Everything has a "vibration" speed this creates density and mass.
2. There is an external and internal chi.
3. When chi is truly explained by science "if ever" it will have alot to do with the "magnetism" of our natural universe.
4. Resonance or vibration can be changed by the mind.
5. Come on princess Lea concentrate harder I can't get this damn X-wing outta the swamp.
Oh here comes the short green guy again, Oh my no, it can't be, yes it's, it's Andy!!!!!!

 

In Tseek Choy's defence, I must say that I also get pretty ticked off with the many people who try to let others think that their chi powers, could turn them into the Ubbermensch. But, having said that, as one member said, this is a forum where we share ideas. I always see it like this, we now have the oppertunity to to our part to help work out these missconseptions in a positive, informative way. If people still want to believe in super chi powers, then so be it. There will always be people who believe in this things, and I guess they have the right to be so naive. All we can do, is to try guide them into the right direction with as much (or as little) knowledge we have on the subject.

I know many people who believe that Copperfield really walked through the Wall of China, and who believe he could really fly. I cannot explain Copperfield with science, but basic physics tells me it musst be a trick.

I think there are many great chi masters who also read this forum, who might want to start helping us out here.

 

I would be a little more tolerant of those who are calling people frauds, cultists, naive, etc. if it they could answer even the simplest beginner's question about Qi, such as the actual definition of the word.
I quite simply do not see the benefit of giving up practice time to engage in internet debate about someone who isn't even on this forum.
Anyone who actually believes that their MA skills will improve by gossiping on the internet is certainly welcome to continue. Just count me out.


Thanks

paul

"Take away paradox from the thinker, and you have a professor"
Kierkegaard

 

?

Pablo wrote;

OK, here is a question! Can anyone give a working definition of Qi, Chi or Ki?


Feiloong wrote;

That would be great Feiloong, though I think between yourself and Pablo you could bring everyone into the same classroom with a liitle cooperation.

Pablo wrote;

You seem to have something specific in mind here Pablo. Something you read or were taught?

As someone who spends most of their time kicking the living Chi 'out' of people. I am always interested in how they cram it in there in the first place!

Please elucidate.

Andy

 

Yes I agree with Andy I would really like to read this to, please share Pablo, even if it is an opinion,I am sure somebody around here can set the record straight. Melanie, sheesh, see what you started.

 

Wow, and suddenly I am dragged into this.

Pablo, first of all, I know nothing about this Moonie guy, beside seeing some articles in the kung fu magazines, and reading the forums. To be honest, I really dont give a rats A$$ who writes and says what. I am not directly influenced by this, so why bother. My statement about "naive" people is one in broad. Having grown up in a martial arts family, I am secure enought about my martial ability, without having to spice it up with mysterious aspects like "so called chi prowes". I think I do know and understand Chi, and I can even explain it in scientifical terms, as I so often told the members to go read books by Dr Yang ZM or even other scientifical journals.

You said no one could even define the basic concept of chi. Why dont you just start the ball rolling? I think I have said enough about this. Chi is not as complex an issue as some might want to think.

Having said that, I read some of your other posts, and you too seem very mature and secure in your art. What style do you play?

Melanie, pardon me for asking You married?




(just kidding - Feiloons is a cyber flirt)

 

On 'Qi'

I gave some references to Qi sites in the earlier thread, and they range from the metaphysical to the scientific. Whether magnetism, internal vibrations, or boiling cinnabar essences, it quickly beomes apparent that none of these things ARE Qi, they are just an attempt to describe how Qi behaves.
For my martial arts purposes (baguazhang), I view Qi as the way I can tell that I am performing with 'internal' power, instead of 'external' power.
There are physical exercises in the internal arts, such as squatting monkey, tien gung, serving teacups, silk reeling, pole shaking, dantien rotation, ball rolling, and standing post. If done correctly, (with Qi, instead of with Li) these should allow one to develop some of the basic building blocks that distinguish the internal arts from the external.
One of interesting things about these internal exercises is what they do to the musculature of the pelvic/dantien area. One of these muscles is the iliopsoas, and it seems that a tight ilipsoas is a major obstacle to developing internal power. When one is doing the exercises, or an internal form properly, the same checklist that 'keeps the Qi from flowing', also tells you if your iliopsoas is properly relaxed. The more that I study and practice, the more that I find that relaxed musculature 'feels' the same as 'Qi flowing'. These feelings are pretty hard to describe by e-mail, but when I recently read some material on the original way of writing Qi in Chinese, the definition had more to do with steam *under pressure*, than steam floating through the air (which is what a lot of modern people translate the Chinese character Qi as). For me, this was of personal significance, and I felt, helpful in my practice.
I do not find debating the merits of Mssrs. Mooney, Mantak, or Ming to be at all useful to my practice. If there are people who are getting some benefit from following the teachings of these folks, fine, but I am not interested in the debate part.

take care

paul

 

Hi Pablo

Just to save us all hunting for our medical dictionaries or Latin phrase books, could you explain the normal bodily function of the iliopsoas. A working definition is ideal, as I know you are not a Physiologist!

Do you feel that Qi, Chi or Ki can be explained by standard physics?

Andy

 

Iliopsoas.

That bad boy consists of three muscles (psoas major, psoas minor, and iliacus) in the pelvic region. The associated nerve supply originate in the lumbar (low) region of the spine.

Great, but what does that mean for the martial artist? In basic terms think of a typical "turning" kick, i.e. when striking 'round' an opponent to perhaps the side of the knee, abdomen or temple. Iliopsoas contracts to bring the hip round and the knee up into the chamber position (shown in figure 2 of "The turning kick" in the kicking section).

Picture a gentle 'lunge' style of movement, this would stretch Iliopsoas. I sourced and attached a typical diagram fron the 'net.

Sticky.

 

Pablo,
Is this the muscle located directly below the navel approximately two inches or so? Is this what the term "Hara" came from. Is this the same thing?
Never mind just saw the above post.

 

Hey Sticky,

Just as well you stayed awake during Botany class you swot!

Andy

 

That is the muscle, but instead of looking at what it powers, such as an external kick, look at what it connects. In order to 'Fill the Mingmen', which is an intruction from the Qi paradigm, we could also think about relaxing and 'lengthening' the iliopsoas.
This accomplishes a very interesting shift in pelvic and spinal alignment that helps (at least it helps me) with the openings and closings that the Classics talk about.
Some people learn to achieve demonstrable internal power by using the visualization of Qi and some people use purely physiological terms. If the results are the same, I don't reallly prefer one training method over the other.
Both of them are equally hard to communicate by e-mail.



thank you

paul

 

Pablo.

Interestingly, we meet at a juncture where we have both ascended the mountain from two distinct paths to realise the same view. Indeed, to 'Fill the Mingmen' one could also think about relaxing and 'lengthening' the iliopsoas.

Yet, that same 'internal' notion you knowingly speak of, corresponds with my notion of the 'external' kick, and is in fact one and the same.

The shortening and inflexibility of iliopsoas can affect the spine in a particular manner (assuming equal shortening on both sides at first). By the stretching of iliopsoas, one helps to align the entire spine.

If iliopsoas is not as flexible as one would prefer, then the lower lumbar region of the spine is pulled forward. It is common sense then that the spine would, over time, adjust to this shortening by a biomechanical change in spinal curvature.

As Andy (I think it was yourself - I'll name drop you anyway as I trust you) has mentioned on another thread elsewhere, training on 'one good side' perhaps can have a bigger impact than would first appear.

Whatever language we choose to describe the function, that function remains as it is, with us trying our best to find words to best describe that function.

Gordon.

 

Sticky wrote:

"...Whatever language we choose to describe the function, that function remains as it is, with us trying our best to find words to best describe that function..."

I like the way that Gordon puts this.


In order to get a little more detail on 'un-tightening' the psoas, I have found 'The Belly And Its Power' by Allan Saltzman to be helpful. It covers a lot about the entire dantien area, without going deeply into medical terminology, or relying on too much metaphysical lingo. It is available from Yogatools Press, or Amazon, etc. can get it.

FWIW

paul

 

Good god sticky.....where were you hiding that knowledge.

Keep up the good work


greyghost.

 

Hi
if you are interested in Chi/ internal stuff in general I would suggest to try it out from the Health side.

Find a good TCM practioner and have a consultation,massage treatment.Talk can only explain these things so far,you will gain some understanding by getting in and feelings your own bodies reaction to a course of treatment by a TCM practioner.This is probaly better value(for your body) then paying the usually exorberent costs of Qigong seminars.

Another suggestion if you particularly want to experience some cheap Qigong(excuse the pun) try your local Falun Da Fa group who will happily impart there exercises to you and try to sell Lis books.(please don't jump on me as to the rights and wrongs of Falun gong )

If this impresses you then start looking into the MA side of it.

 

Help/Tips

I just recently started learning the focusing of one's Chi. I do not do as good as I have a time or two... I also have started learning to use the third eye to sense Chi other than yours, but the distance that I can do this at is extremely extremely short (don't ask what it is... too imbarrasing ...). I realize that using visualization can help tremendously, but I am not that good at it... Please give me any tips you may have.