The Myth of the Street Fighter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking the Self Defence industry in its entirity, I think it's great that at least one group of society is concerned with such matters on such a pro-active level. And I'm well aware of the good stuff that jwt does.

I'm just concerned about the paranoia and fear that some people build and believe in when thinking about the nature of street fights.

 

I suppose it boils down to experience, in terms of having either a realistic or unrealistic view of things.

I think for a lot of youths growing up in a fairly sheltered environment, it is probably very easy to imagine that the 'other side of the tracks' is inhabited with large numbers of vicious thugs who will attack you the moment you stray onto their patch. And if they haven't had many real fights in their life then they probably imagine all sorts of gory outcomes. I'd guess that they tend to be the ones who feed the whole 'streetfighter' myth.

On the other side of the coin, people with more experience of life and of it's more unpleasant sides will have a better understanding of just how bad the outcome of a fight can be, but also the knowledge that the vast majority of fights on 'the street' are actually just as pathetic as those in the playground.

Being able to pre-empt situations is obviously the most useful asset by a mile. Of course there are real nutters out there. But thankfully they are quite few and far between.

 

The advice has been to hit him in the head as hard as possible.The techniques you desribe such as eye gouging and throat strikes aren't really rated when it comes to stopping someone.Sure they will work against some people but they aren't something that can be relied on.Force always has to be reasonable and if its just someone mouthing off you are hardly justified in breaking their jaw or skull.Most doormen have specialised in pre-emptive strikes,something most of us will never do as we haven't got the right mindset to carry out such a brutal act.Its no use pretending in training that you have got this mindset when its quite clear you are a nice guy who dosen't like going around hurting people.I haven't got it and to be honest don't want it.It comes from childhood abuse and other such things which make people nasty.

All I can say is learn from these guys but don't aim to become like them as most of them have paid a price for their violent ways.

 

We're not talking about murder, we're talking about fighting in the street, or during a robbery. People do freeze up. I've seen it happen.

Sure, a person who trains hard will probably have the edge over an untrained, unarmed, solitary opponent. But if that person freezes up (happens less with MAists who spar, but still happens) then all the technique in the world can't help you.

Also, there is no such thing as a 'streetfighter', there is only a person who fights. There is absolutely no guarantee that that person isn't also a martial artist (or, naming no names, a fairly well known pro boxer with an alcohol induced attitude problem). No opponent on the street is the same as another and trying to bundle them up into some mythical off the shelf thug is only going to come back to bite you on the behind.

 

Okay, so whats the magic bulllet that RBSD industry claims? Mostly, all I see is "deadly" techniques taught on complaint partners.

If you train in some kind of art that spars full-contact, you will have an overwhelming advantage against the average street thug. Why do I think this? Becasue at boxing gyms street thugs (who are used to fighting all the time & maybe have been in prison) walk in off the street all the time... and get their asses handed to them. Sure if you box, I suppose you could still freez up, anything's possible. But probably not.

If you are really worried about a catastrophic attack on the street, a self-defense, or any martial art class is NOT the way to go.

 

Hi, you seem to imply that boxing is the way to go - however boxing has LOTS of rules and teaches you zero about defending against a knife - which is a common weapon if we are talking "catastrophic attack".

I have a HUGE respect for boxing and boxers in general - but there is not a one type fits all answer, simply because if there was, we would ALL be training in it

The important thing to remember is that for every situation where someone gets killed or maimed or raped or whatever, there are a thousand incidents with a much much much lower level of violence - most of the time you should train for what you are most likely to have to deal with.

 

Hi Robert, Great points. Although I'm a fan of boxing, I am merely using it illustrate that contact training is a good way to increase your self defense capability. I teach Hapkido, which has plenty of defense techniques against a weapons, but I'm still skeptical that they can be of use without a more general familiarity with physical confrontation that contact training provides.

I'm essentially trying to make the point, which I may have digressed from, that I think the "self-defense" industry plays upon insecurities in of martial artistist who, by and lagre, practice only theoretical fighting skills. In contrast, you would never here a conversation about how scary a "streetfighter" is in a boxing gym. I say this not because I think boxing is a superior martial art, but it's worth a thought as to why martial artists have this anxiety, but boxers don't.

 

Hi CZ - It looks like our opinions are pretty darn close

 

From working in psychiatric units ive came to the conclusion that If someone picks a fight with you its unlikely that any de-eascalation is gonna work as they've already got themselves in attack mode. To talk someone out of a punch up you need to get them before the are in that state of mind.

FACT someone without martial arts/boxing/mma background does have the ability to able to not only fight but to do so very well and many times at a level a martial artist has no experience in.

 

i can see where you're coming from on this one mitch, although angry neighbours can be reasoned with slightly easier as there is somewhat of a relationship between neighbours to begin with. I was getting at the you spilled my pint types or the you looking at my burd setup. the latter has no right answer say yes = fight, say no = fight as you just told him his burd aint worth looking at.

 

i dont claim to have it either. just that select mates and neighbours think im hard as F. so its easier to play referee

 

That's a good point.

I think that most times someone is acting aggressively, shouting and eyeballing you, they are trying to intimidate you into backing down, and the situation can still be de-escalated - or very possibly you can intimidate them into backing down, although that obviously carries the risk of escalating the situation.

They want you to feel as though they are in 'attack mode' so that you back down. But 99% of the time they don't really want to take the chance of having a fight, they just want you to back down. It's spotting when they really are in attack mode that's the key.

I think you're real bona-fide nutter bypasses the posturing and shouting stage and goes straight into attack mode. The more time someone spends shouting about how he's going to kill you then the less chance that he will do anything except shout.

Often he's only too happy if you give him an opportunity to de-escalate without looking like he's backing down. Other times they'll walk away still shouting, just to look like they aren't really 'walking away from a fight'.

 

Hi 'TheMadhoose'

Very valid point - though I think it helps to take it in the context of the situation "working in psychiatric units" by definition you are working with people who suffer from psychiatric disorders and are in a place where they may well feel uncomfortable/threatened - thus you are facing a much higher risk (and violence) factor than the 'average' man in the street.

If you were a student of mine we would be doing LOTS of work on awareness, quick responses to attack, jamming, and whatever else seemed appropriate to the situation - As I keep preaching 'everything is situational'