The 'Legit' Rank B.S.

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by KGS BBS, Jul 26, 2006.

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  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I think they should stop the political nonesense and just have all of these masters put their money where their mouthes are and actually fight. If not them, then have their best students go at it. Do we have any willing representatives of Mr. Nesbitt to issue a challenge to Mr. Geary's school? I'll bring the popcorn!
  2. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Apparently Dr Nesbitt

    Has sent a letter to the school of CG and insinuated that he was the person by the name of Chris Geary who claims to be, an outspoken Homosexual.

    This discussion came up, because of an airplane ticket was sent to Dr Nesbitt to come to the school to teach, is now not going to be honored because CG is no longer in the organization. It is something that has digressed and I figure we have not heard the last of it.

    Things are not going good for this organization, nor Dr. Nesbitt it appears.
    He is going to redeem the ticket and keep the dough LOL. Less a few bucks for selling it back.

    It reminds me of other organizations, out there in the never never land of martial arts.
    Pathetic. :)
  3. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    In all it's naked glory...

    and the reply was

  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Good job and coming along fine, since I am a fan of Professor John Leoning, and feel he has been slighted in the past, I believe this time line puts things in proportion... How are the leaves doing in your area I'll bet its starting to look very pretty?

    Keep up the good work, I know the time it takes to sort or ferret good information and bad and then sometime feeling you are on the right when you came up on the left (out) that is.

    Regards :)
  5. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    your history has a few notable holes in it. No mention of Cerio or Villari making it to tenth, nor the incredible decline of Kempo in the US thereafter on the East and West coasts.
  6. RevIV

    RevIV Valued Member

    Matt notes that Villari takes his 10th after the creation of his form Sho tun Kwak. His history is a work in progress as noted at the top of his page
    In Peace
  7. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

  8. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    ahh I see. Well here's a link to another guys compilation of kempo history that I've gone by:
  9. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    There's a few mistakes in this account also, but some of those mistakes are pretty common.

    A few common mistakes are the statements that Adriano Emperado and the Kajukenbo founders grew up in the "Palamas Settlement".
    The "Palama Settlement" was/is a set of buildings, gym's, health clinics, classrooms, and outdoor playing fields. It was one of several "settlements" in the U.S. and England run by churches originally. The Palama Settlement was later given to the City/County of Honolulu who were better able to fund it. The term "settlement" came from the fact that the social workers who worked there were required to live on the premises, so they would get to know the people and culture of the area they served. No one else lived there, except employees and volunteers.
    The Palama Settlement is actually located in the "Kalihi District" of Honolulu. That is where people like Adriano Emperado, Ed Parker, Wally Jay, and Sol Kaihewalu, grew up.
    Contrary to some rumors John Leoning was not one of William Chow's black belts. Many people, including his family can verify this.
    He grew up in Kaua'i, and was a elementary school classmate of Adriano Emperado's during the years that Emperado lived with his older brother on Kaua'i. They met again as adults at the Kaheka gym in the early 50's. That's when Leoning was invited to join the class at the Palama Settlement gym. He was not one of Emperado's first students. Emperado's first students (outside of Prof. Chow's school) were some of his co-workers from Pan Am Airlines who he started teaching at the Halawa Veterans Housing in 1949.
  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Yes it is interesting

    Some say one thing, as other's say another. The only thing I would like to do is get to the truth, if it can actually be found.

    I an actually see the holes as well as other's.
    Some had studied a life time believing the world to be the center of the Solar System or Universe.
    Just last year did the Catholic church come to the conclusion they were wrong in the dogmatic beliefs. They finally gave in and admitted it.

    I don't believe Mitose was as sinister as he is portrayed in the early years, but somewhere in the later ones of his life he went haywire...I believe it had to do with his problem with Diabetes.
    Diabetes takes it's toll in many ways. They are coming to that finding more and more of late.

    We can argue till the cows come home about these topics, and then change it slightly and argue it some more.

    I sure hope we do come to a closure regarding the wrongs that are posted and really have a better idea of what did happen.

    I am reading a very interesting book that has much credit and value and many years of research. It is called "1421, The Year China Discovered America", written by Gavin Menzies. Good read I have been reading other books that deals with this subject. Changes the whole notion of history as we have been taught for centuries.

    One thing for sure. That will be debated just like this topic. As long as we keep it civil and try our best to find the answers, I think it will be a good deal even as many times as it has been hashed over.

    I am looking forward to talking to some of the old timers at the Gathering that will be in October. But when you get to pointed, some will just say I don't talk politics, or else they will answer, what do you think?

    When you go to these events you see some great stuff, but when you come away it is the same old "chicken" just different flavors. I had mentioned which came first the chicken or the egg in a post... The egg of course.
    So what you see is some Chicken with egg mixed in or visa versa...

    Clever these elders. :bang:
  11. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
  12. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Dan Weston

    Regarding your reply.

    Thomas B Mitose came out of retirement and is rewriting the book of his fathers and it will be interesting. It is coming out of Canada HMMM.

    Mark Mitose is no longer in the picture????

    Just a couple of thoughts that might change the way we will be looking at it in a year from now.
    Many things that have been posted can be brought into play, that are controversial and contrary to what is being said right now.
    Probably by all parties, especially if not quoting the whole message.

    :confused: Are we? Thomas B. Mitose is now calling himself Hanshi :confused:

    Remember :rolleyes: Thomas B Mitose, is Kajukenbo back ground. :)
  14. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Ahhh...Now it's clear Gary.....NOT.
  15. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    What's your point? Thomas has a Kajukenbo background. Bruce Juchnik and Ray Arquilla have Tracy Kenpo backgrounds. Nimr Hassan has a Shorin Ryu background. Arnold Golub has a Tracy Kenpo background. James Muro has a Danzan Ryu Jujitsu background.

    And is the "hanshi" title exclusive to just one person? I could probably google up 1000 people using that title.
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    My point?

    I believe it will change in the next writing of the book by Thomas.
    I believe many things have been talked about that may or may not be confirmed.
    I believe Thomas has a reason to write this book. I believe it will bring more stories (more truths or untruths).

    I have personally been e-mailed by many who have stories that are going to be continued to be told in new books on the subject.

    This particular Gathering is going to be of interest because many of the players who were there in the first place are getting together. I think some of the ones from the Kajukenbo people ought to be there also. I do know of a few who will be. I am told. Plus I have talked to several myself.

    After all most of them do get together, except the son of the "Man" for why the gathering is put together in the first place.
    To bring the arts to one location to practice and show what they do. Get together for a dinner and talk.

    One of the things that is really confusing to me is the constant hammering of James Mitose.
    After all his son is in the Kajukenbo organization. Has Sijo, have no respect for Thomas? I know he used to be on the board of directors and Sijo himself felt that Thomas was the natural, to be the blood inheritor. Or does Sijo even know how much trash talk goes on?

    I am sure Thomas gets tired of this continued on slaught by members of his own group. It is not like he denies it.

    Or is that the reason? To demean that man also? It seems like he is a very good canditate to be always in a place of high esteem, sort of complete the circle? Similar to the Son of Angel Cabalas, the Cabalas Escrima system.

    That is just one of my points.

    What is your point of continually bringing up how bad James was?
    I would say if any one in the MA system were asked about James M. Mitose, They would mention how he brought Kenpo to Hawaii and died in jail for a crime commited by another but shown to be conspired by them.
    Based on the killer informant, rolling over on him.
    I believe I read that Terry Lee was a Kajukenbo practioner also.
    But if he was or not, it does not matter, does it?

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  17. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    More rumors? Too bad you started your research 20 years too late, after many of the people who were there have passed on.
    Still throwing out lies Gary? Tell me what reliable source told you that Terry Lee was Kajukenbo? Who was his instructor? Funny, I didnt know we had any Kajukenbo instructors in Okinawa (where Lee trained) in the 60's-70's. Maybe the reason your still a white belt after 40 years is because you spend more time reading and listening to rumors then training. I think I read somewhere that you went out on a psych. retirement. Still a little 5150. Is that true, or just a rumor?
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  18. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    Thanks Gary.

    Kind of you to say. I've actually got some more info, but haven't been able to incorporate it yet. This semester is full time student / full time job / teach / parent. The only reason I'm posting (and not as much as in the past) is that it's a nice way to wind down after work since nobody else in the house is up. Not much in the way of leaves in my neighborhood right now, as we mostly have these little 'scrub pines' here on the outer cape. Once we get over the bridge back on the 'mainland' we get to see the pretty colors:)
  19. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    Plenty of holes - plenty more questions.

    I think the Villari tenth is in the footnotes (from the Black Belt Magazine interview) but I could be wrong. But you are correct. There are many holes, some of which are intentional, but others are just because I'm behind in my work. I try to only include things I can back up with some sort of documentation or creditable source. This leads to unfortunate situations where I get a piece of information and I'd like to put it up, but the source says it is 'off the record' or some equivalent thing, and I respect that. I'll use it to further my research, but I respect the wishes of the folks who help me. There are some 'common knowledge' events missing, but some of those are because I've found that many of the 'common knowledge' or 'accepted' events haven't panned out as true in my experience.

    On the other hand, if there are events that you feel should be included, I will happily include them if I can get some sort of credible source material to back them up.

    Now and then I'll put up an article based on my opinion, but then it is usually labeled as such and separate from the timeline.

  20. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

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