The Kajukenbo Hui

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Nuck Chorris, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Not moved around, but more of an issue that if you are a broken link, where do your students go on the family tree?
  2. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    If I wasn't under Sijo, my students would end up under my name as my black belts under the broken line. I think there are a few on the tree listed this way.

    Let me pose a question to you that may help you to understand how the tree works. There have been people who have joined KSDI and have been promoted under the KSDI banner. However, these people maintain their lineage even though they have been promoted via KSDI. They did NOT go under Sijo directly. Should these people who have been promoted by KSDI need to be sectioned out in a different area of the tree to signify that they have been promoted by KSDI?
  3. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Perhaps the family tree and how Hui will work with it is not as big an issue as I thought it might be.

    However, people aren't promoted by KSDI because KSDI is an organization. People are promoted by other people. It is the people that sign the rank certificate that are giving the promotion. Within an organization that rank is honored.

    The Kajukenbo family tree is roughly based on those that signed the rank certificate. Keeping in mind that one would only sign the rank certificate if they were themselves approving of it.

    Now it is not uncommon to have a board of black belts present during a rank test. Those on the board would each then sign the rank certificate on a successfully promotion.

    If the Hui is to take the role of a promotions board, will it be the president of the Hui or every member of the board that is going to sign the rank certificate?

    You got to look at these things five, ten, twenty years down the road. People are going to be going for rank in the Hui for business reasons... the higher the rank, the better the perception to the customers.

    People will be using the Hui for legitimate rank in kajukenbo.

    Recall this post #30 in this thread from Professor Bishop:

    Every member of the Board that decides a promotion should be held accountable for every promotion they make. How is that done other than signing their names to the rank certificate and if the promoted person is independent, then putting that person under themselves in the Kajukenbo family tree?

    Of course this is just my observatoins and opinions.
  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    All I will say here, unless Dan wishes to further comment is that as it stands no promotions are taking place, and definitely no promotions higher than the current members ranks are taking place.

    I see the difference between having a board and an organization being a little more than semantics. Again, as being a person who is more focused on performance than lineage, I don't care who signed who's certificate, I care what they do. If they met the criteria of the HUI to hold that rank, then that is just as valid to me as someone who got their rank through a board of GM's. Because I will only judge that person once I get the chance to fight them or see them fight.

    Then again I am biased, and am very open about not caring about rank, so that is a bit unfair to someone who is interested in who trained under who doing what, but hey, like Dan said, I am only but one voice and others are free to disagree.
  5. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    It took me a little while to figure out what you were trying to get at, but I think I have finally put it together. This is going to be long winded...

    Yes, when you are a member of an organization you are saying you support that organization's by-laws, administration, and actions. Until recently with KSDI, the organization had one person at the top. The one person was solely responsible for ranking within KSDI. When the KSDI certificates were signed, we as members were obligated to also agree with the promotion. That person until recently was Sijo. Just because one was promoted and received a KSDI certificate did not mean that the individual was then under Sijo. What the certificate stated was that SIJO and therefor KSDI recognized your rank as such. If other KSDI members signed your certificate that was to show only as witness to the promotion.

    In essence, Sijo's actions had allowed individuals to remain independent but also part of Kajukenbo. Members of KSDI were obligated to endorse the promotion because they were members of Sijo's organization. With Sijo removing himself from the position of conservator, there is no more means by which this independence will be maintained unless one is determined to either remain stagnant or seek rank from organizations outside of Kajukenbo. This is the reason why the Hui was created.

    The Hui, in essence, allows for independence from a single higher authority but at the same time invites and encourages participation among the Ohana - replacing the void that was created when Sijo stepped away from KSDI. There is no need to change anyone's place on the family tree. Credit is given on the family tree to the original instructor as it should be. Independence is maintained because the individual promoted by the Hui is not going under another.

    When the certificate is read, it will state that the individual has been promoted in the art of Kajukenbo by the Kajukenbo Hui to the rank of whatever. The signature will be that of the HEO or in the case of an appeal, the members of the appellate board. The Hui members are free to witness any certification, but I don't have everyone in KSDI signing my certificates either.

    The only difference is that the Hui policy is controlled by the members. So if KSDI had all the members voting on what the criteria was for would be no different.

  6. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    This is very much correct. Right now the activity in the Hui is people joining and wanting to take part in the discussion. Building a ship and sitting in it while it is on land versus building it and being the first to jump on board when it is in the water are two different things. The first person promoted by the Hui has some major stones. It will happen when the time is right.
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Thanks for the long and detailed answer.

    Believe it or not, I think I got my concerns answered.

    Thanks again.
  8. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    You are aware that Sijo's advisory board is still in the process of establishing their guidelines? And that one of the possible guidelines will be to make all KSDI black belt promotions, not just 8th and 9th degree. Since Sijo has said that he will no longer make any promotions.
  9. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South


    I am aware that Sijo gave a mandate to the BOA; in which they were to establish guidelines. However, Sijo has only given them the authority to promote KSDI members to the rank of 8th and 9th.
  10. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    There have been on going discussions between Sijo and members of the BOA. One member from Calif. has just returned from Maui, and another member from Oahu is going to be meeting with Sijo next.
  11. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I guess I'll call GM Bautista then. Or should I wait for GM Forbach to call me?
  12. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    GM Kingi is the spokesman for the BOA. He'll make the announcements when they finalize the policies.
  13. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    This seems to contradict what you said above in post #25 no? In post #25 you said that the Hui was created before Sijo's announcement, and in your recent post you say that the reason Hui was created was due to Sijo's announcement that he was stepping aside as far as ranking people goes. So was it due to the announcement or was it created before the announcement?
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  14. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    The Hui was created before Sijo's announcement. That is documented in the Hui forums on the E. Politics being played at the time were fairly obscene and it was apparent that Sijo was no longer taking an active position within his organization.

    The quote you use does lead to the confusion because I wrote that he stepped aside and I also wrote that in the same context of his letter. Sorry for the confusion.
  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    One thing already mentioned by you Sigung Dan is that the creation of the Hui has provided an inspiration for much needed discussion in an organized manner, IMHO.

    It reminds me of something my wife did years ago. We lived on a busy corner and every day we could here the car horns honking because of close calls and near misses. Even the fence I had to repair because years before a car had run through it. The fence across the street was also down because a car had run into it, we even saw that accident happen in mid-day. Nothing for years, then my wife called up the city every day complaining, one month later we had a new traffic light on the corner. To this day we do not know if the city was planning before hand to put the light there, but we would like to think that the light was put there because of what we did.

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