The Judo rules changes, how will they impact Judo's value in MMA?

This video was the first exposure I had to the recent rules changes in Judo. I was curious how much the rules changes will impact Judo's contribution to MMA?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40CA9CStpqg"]Forbidden Judo: Effective Throws and Take-downs Banned from Sport Competition - YouTube[/ame]

 

Little if at all. Most judo coaches know and teach the banned stuff anyway because I assume a large percentage of people don't compete but they're still good throws to know. My coach is a 2012 Olympian and has us drill leg grabs etc. all the time.

 

You still have to learn Morote Gari etc in Judo as part of the syllabus. And if you are transitioning to MMA you'll do enough drills to make up for any deficiency in that area.

 

I have a few question for the Judo practitioners here, I hope you dont mind if I jack your thread briefly what works?

For you long term practitioners, I've heard that they have been removing a lot of techniques from competition over the years. Why is that? To prevent injury?

How has it effected your training? Do you find that the banned techniques are removed from the syllabus or practiced much less?

Does it bother you that they change rules and remove techniques? I mean you invest x amount of time mastering a technique only to learn you can't use it in competition anymore.

 

On the blog of Ronda Rousey's mother who was the first World Women's Judo Champion, she cited that apparently in Europe, wrestlers were joining Judo tourneys and as she put it "humiliating" them. And this lead to the rules changes.

 

This. I think the IJF claimed the changes were to make the sport more 'dynamic' for the audience confused but it's hard to swallow that excuse. It reallt does seem like the Japanese weren't happy being humiliated by nationa with strong wrestling pedigrees (Mongolia, Russia, Khazakstan, etc).

I know several judoka enter No-Gi and Freestyle Judo so the option for non-Olympic competition.

 

I've competed against Judokas in Freestyle Wrestling, I can understand the cross over. After the match I spoke with my coach (also a referree) and said its quite common for a wrestler to do judo and vice versa.

 

Which sport do people think benefits the other more? I'm referring to supplementary training here. Does cross-training in Judo benefit a wrestler more than a Judoka cross-training in wrestling, and vice versa, or is it roughly equal?

 

The wrestling benefits the judoka more, mainly because wrestling training is typically so much more intense.

 

Yeah, Ronda's mother said the same thing. She said it in very blunt terms. Basically she said "If you have ever been to a wrestling practice, they are far more difficult then most Judo Practices."

My kids want to be competitive grapplers and so I have enrolled them in a local wrestling club, but the wrestling season only goes during the winter months around here. I wish there was somewhere they could train throughout the year. There are camps in the summer but the gap between them and the season is pretty huge.

 

I coach youth wrestling, kindergarten through 2nd grade, and we practice twice a week for 2 hours a practice with a tournament most Saturdays. For the older kids through middle school its 3 times a week.

 

Right, but do you do this throughout the year? Or just during the season? I guess it seems odd that something so critical to good grappling is only available three or four months out of the year. But it's not like people open wrestling dojos.

 

Hi WhatWorks? .... Long time no speak

 

Playing devil's advocate here...

I wonder if the "anti-wrestling" rule changes are defensible from a self-defence standpoint.

Judo's self-defence strategy envisages that your assailant may well be a lot bigger and stronger than you, and that the best way to overcome your assailant is to throw him using techniques based on efficient leverage, hence the use of a gi. Ideally, you will execute your throw and take your attacker out; even if it does not cause much real damage, you will be on your feet and capable of escaping. At least, that is the idea.

Judo competition exists to promote "aliveness", i.e. to promote the development of dynamic skills, such as timing, that will benefit judoka if they have to defend themselves in real life. It is thus the means to an end, not the end in itself. I am sure many judoka train purely for competition, but we are talking about roots here.

Although judo's impact on MMA has been limited, it could be argued that its "weaknesses" are strengths in that they help to prepare judoka, in a valid "alive" way, for common self-defence considerations that are not present in MMA, such as gripfighting with jackets, the damage potential of throwing someone onto concrete, and the idea that you want to keep groundfighting to a minimum if you do it at all. With this in mind, it is perhaps understandable that they want to try and make judoka fight in a certain way, and if people are winning judo competitions using double-leg takedowns then it encourages a method of fighting that does not fit as well into judo's intended self-defence strategy, therefore they ban them in order to force judoka to adopt what they think is the more effective strategy for self-defence. It is a form of preserving "style purity" that is actually justified.

Does any of that make sense to anyone?

Also, happy new year all.

 

If that were the actual intent, then ankle picks, double-sleeve grips, belt-grips, and two-on-one grips would go a long way towards breaking up standing stalling and encouraging the dynamic movement that more closely mirrors the tempo of real confrontations. Crossfaces and leglocks would also go a long way to breaking up the shoot-and-lay gimmick. That or counting belly-down as a pinnable position.
Pretty much everything that got banned after "other guys" started winning with it. The purpose is ostensibly to prevent stalling but the bans take away some of the best tools to defeat stalling.

 

Honestly if the juji gatame weren't so fundamental I expect it'd have been banned as "unsafe" when the Soviets showed up in the seventies and started surprising people with it.

 

Bear in mind that one of Kano's biggest judo breakthroughs in the early years was his appropriation of kata guruma from wrestling. A throw that the IJF has now effectively banned.

I do think that Judo is more exciting to watch since the rule changes, I just think they've devastated the martial art to further the sport.

 

Do some of you think it would be better if Judo evolved and adapted to these methods rather than tried to ban them?

 

It's not even really a case of evolve and adapt, they were all legal and a part of the tradition. It was just a case that other sports were better at them due to their own rule sets (Sambo excluding chokes and focusing on the leg/arm locks, wrestling on the leg picks/fireman throws).

It should have been a case of manning up and getting on with the job, rather than banning things to hide a deficiency (with the possible exception of Kani Bassami, I think that ban was truly for the safety of the sport of Judo).

 

I think a big reason why they made these rule changes (which go beyond banning leg grabs) was because as a spectator sport it was boring - particular for outsiders. If you compare the Beijing Olympics to this year's grand prix, it is hard to argue that the matches are not more exciting to watch now.