The "Hand Conditioning Will Ruin Your Hands" myth

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by hendry, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. shadow_ronin

    shadow_ronin Banned Banned

  2. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Sorry, wrong again. Hand conditioning is primarily strenghthening the muscles and tendons of the hand and wrist so that they maintain rigidity and dont inappropriately flex, extend, rotate or deviate excessively in the radial and ulnar planes. When the hand strikes a target the target is not usually direct frontal on in all planes, thus the hand rotates, flexes, extends etc. This in turn cause the force to be applied to the bone in question in a tangental angle which is where it is also weaker.

    This is why boxers wrap their wrist. It keeps their knuckles and wrists in proper alignment. The early UFC had lots of hand fracture because no wraps or gloves were allowed. Now cage fighters use gloves with relatively little padding over the knuckles but still use hand wraps and the gloves themselves which also promote proper alignment.

    If you want to condition your hands, then the approach of rosstraining is a good method and it will not decrease the health or longevity of the carpal or metacarpal joints.

    Calcium buildup is really not necessary.

    As regards those famous pictures of Takamatsu thickened nails. The appearance of them is identical with the commonly seen fungal hand infections which would not unexpected if he went around trying to claw a trees etc. Now days we usually treat them before they get to such an extreme. If fact such nails are weaker and less healthy and are not anything I would recommend.
     
  3. Zannen!

    Zannen! Banned Banned


    I actually agree with you in this case :D.

    I just thought it was funny you are dispelling myths yet, don't dispel the myths closer to home.


    It would be an "ad hominem" if and only if it was an argument. It isn't an attack more of a ribbing in your direction.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2007
  4. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    is it ignorance or just understanding his fundamental needs to ensure there is less misunderstanding?

    See, what Hendry is on about is striking stuff, continually hitting it to ensure you build up hard stiking power, but is that conditioning? i see martialdads post as being a more effective was of conditioning hands, i try to do this often and do a variety of those exercises shown.

    As said above by connavar a lot of conditioning is to do with the muscles in between bones not to cause calcium deposits on hands which is what you do if you strengthen bones by repeated striking. I prefer to focus on the muscle side as it keeps my hands better looking and wont ruin them.

    I'm still waiting to find out where Hendry got this mythh from? who said it etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2007
  5. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Jeff, you missed the **** taking even at the point od where i said about my wifes ass.
     
  6. shadow_ronin

    shadow_ronin Banned Banned

    Quick anecdote.

    Quite a few years before i found the Bujinkan and just after i stopped doing Judo i started to condition my hands. I'm not quite sure where the idea came from but at that time logic dictated that hitting hard objects made your hands stronger.

    So what i would do is go outside (i lived in a forest, how convenient) and find a tree, any tree would do. Then for about 30 mins i would keep hitting the tree with full power until my knuckles were bloody, often leaving the tree with bark stripped off and blood all over it.

    I did this for a few weeks until i realised it wasn't really doing me any good. A few years later i joined the Bujinkan and found that hitting people was far more enjoyable then hitting a tree :D .
     
  7. elftengu

    elftengu Banned Banned

    I do more looking than listening.

    Yes, some people perform breaking in a relaxed-looking manner but breaking still needs a certain frame of mind to be entered first, which there is no time to do so in a real fight, this is why I like the taijutsu approach of being able to respond without going into 'oos' mode first.
     
  8. CandyCaneShinai

    CandyCaneShinai Valued Member

    If you want tough, strong hands, go work on a farm.
    It would be the most authentic hand training you could ever get.
    Real, hard, sweaty, painful life.
     
  9. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Elftengu posted
    Yes those windmills and back spins can be lethal in a fight, especially on a shiny floor with a good dance track. :D

    Garth
     
  10. MagokoroDojo

    MagokoroDojo Banned Banned

    I might have... but I have decided that since you have an uncanny ability to never be able to stay on topic, nor post anything of any real intelligent substance, that it would be better for me to just assume that everytime you post you are being serious... no matter how ridiculous the words that you have typed actually are.
     
  11. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    fair do's, but remember it it includes boobs, girls, comedy profanity or me wearing oil of ulay then its normally serious!! :D
     
  12. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    You want to be in the same room and have to listen to him Jeff :D
     
  13. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    funny, thats what Lisa says about you! :p :D
     
  14. hendry

    hendry Valued Member

    I'm confused ... How would having strong hands prevent you from being able to respond with "the taijutsu approach"?
     
  15. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Hendry, while you are on.
     
  16. hendry

    hendry Valued Member

    Good question Keikai.

    I've heard that from a lot of people, including a 15th dan. My first teacher, a 5th dan at the time, also said it was bad and that we didn't need it because we relied on distancing and timing and balance. (Still trying to figure that one out).

    But instead of me trying to convince you of all the people I've heard it from, let me turn the question round and ask how many people are there in the Bujinkan who condition their hands? How many do you know that actually do it?
     
  17. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    ok fair enough, the way you make things out recently is that the Bujinkan on here have a lot of myths to answer ie the 'ask your instructor myth' how one 15th Dan may feel about conditioning maybe different to another, everyone is different, such as on here, how many different opinions are there for this subject?

    i know of a few thats all, i do a little bit but not the stiking conditioning more of the muscle work as shown in the link by martial dad, if i didnt have an office job where i meet customers i may be more inclined to punch things.
     
  18. hendry

    hendry Valued Member

    I think I may have not been 100% clear about what I mean by hand conditioning.

    I also definitely do not agree with punching hard things, including wet sand to develop calluses. IMO that is a low level of conditioning.

    What I'm talking about is a combination of strengthening (like in that martialdad post) as well as striking. IMO you need both. And furthermore, you need to strengthen the wrist and forearm as well.

    When it comes to striking, I consider good conditioning to be where you gradually build up, using appropriate striking materials. Proper massage and use of herbal medicines are important too. If you damage the skin or get calluses, that is wrong IMO.

    Also bear in mind that the fist (fudoken) is only one piece of it. Proper conditioning should include the palm, the back of the hand, the edge of the hand and the fingers as well.
     
  19. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    you forgot the wrist which is really the trunk, if this is limp then there will be no power.
     
  20. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    And you definitely have a limp wrist! :p
     

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