The Good in the Bujinkan

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Crow, May 6, 2007.

  1. Crow

    Crow Valued Member

    Well now, if any of you track my posts in the MAP lately most of them have been in the Ninjutsu section and not flattering towards the Bujinkan. Reason being, I had a strong interest in ninjutsu a long time ago; now my interest lies mostly in other directions but it is still present.

    Anyways, I do not want to train in the Bujinkan or any of the X-kans personally. However, a lot of the X-kans and especially Bujinkan as it is the most known get a lot of flack these days.

    So, this thread is a thread of goodwill so to speak. A thread to tell about the good things of Bujinkan (and other X-kans although I have no experince of those) from the perspective of outsiders and insiders (but please leave the "my instructor is so deadly and he has a HUGE staff"-comments outside of this thread).

    So the Good: Bujinkan obviously inspires a lot of commitment in many members. It is a way of life for some people and the philosophy of ninjutsu (I dont know what that is, I am mentioning it purely by reference) seems to be The thing for many people.

    As so, anything that gives spiritual guidance or mental clarity can't be all bad. (Please lets not go into cults on this)

    Bujinkan's martial heritage comes from many verified sources, although I personally dont believe in certain claims. Bujinkan has a lot of good stuff to draw from and has great potential to transfer some good skills and techniques. (Now, if somebody starts about that Bujinkan is not about techniques I will simply hang you.)

    Anyways, more later. But the floor is yours.
     
  2. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

  3. llong

    llong Valued Member

    A good thing is the bruises, cuts, and sore muscles I get after class.

    Another good thing is that 70 year old men, whom I outweigh by 100 pounds, throw me like a Sunday New York Times left out in the rain.

    Last one: I can dedicate myself to something for the rest of my life, get better and better, and still never be done. This, I think the Japanese have perfected.
     
  4. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    I happen to think that is a good thing as well.

    That is why I started out in Bujinkan. Now I stick around for other things as well. This is an art that you can excell at. It is not something that you can get the moves down and then be satisfied with it. There are dancers, and then there are great dancers that go far deeper into the art than most. Bujinkan is like that.

    I like the idea that I can do the same type of thing in taijutsu if I work hard enough at it. It gives me a challenge. If the Bujinkan didn't help me to save my life when I need it, I would not be studying it. But if all I wanted was to be able to save my life, I probably would be satisfied with my progress right now. But I keep going to class for a chance to prove to myself that I can excell at something.
     
  5. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Excellent point, Grim! One of the great things about this art is that, whether or not you ever reach what you yourself would consider excellence, you can always continue to improve.
     
  6. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Crow posted
    I do question whether you have actually ever trained with the Bujinkan and if so for how long. You also say that your posts are not flattering towards the Bujinkan, and your reason for that is that your interests have changed. Good reason.

    So you have no experience of the other X Kans, but you want to tell us about the good things about something you have never experienced.

    And thats it?

    How about the fact that people in the Bujinkan and other X kans are studying a number of martial arts that goes back a thousands years or more, how about the fact that without these X Kans these schoools (ryuha) would probably be lost forever, how about the fact that the philosophy from these X Kans are permeating out into the world and other areas, how about the fact that Hatsumi Sensei, Tanemura Sensei and other have taught these skills to members of the FBI, CIA, Special forces and other government agencies, how about the fact as Dale said that this martial tradition has saved countless lives, including my own, How about the effect that these X Kans have had on other martial artist practicing seperate martial arts, how about the good name that these X kans have created for the much misunderstood terms of Ninja and Ninjutsu, and the cultural group they represent. The list goes on.

    I am wondering why you put this in here. I have questioned certain claims made by certain X Kans. i.e the history (age) of the Amatsu Tatara from some sources in my opinion is unprovable, but that does not mean that its not true just that so far the evidence is lacking. The same goes for some of the Ryu Ha. Trying to trace a school back to the 11th century is extremely difficult, but that does not mean that therefore the scholl is indeed not that old, just that the evidence is lacking.

    So its not a case for me of disbelieving, its just that until more evidence presents itself I will stay unconvinced.

    So to say you don't believe certain claims is a big step to take. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    How do you know?

    Gary Arthur
     
  7. Big Will

    Big Will Ninpô Ikkan

    For me, it's knowing that it's an art I can train in all my life, and still never be master of. Since I started training in 2005, I constantly "find" new things to improve in my taijutsu, and new aspects to try to understand. And I can only assume this goes on for as long as one trains, which makes it truly wonderful.

    It's not just about getting faster, or punching stronger, it's about learning how to use your body. And when I'm not training physically, I can still be in the mental process of training by reading practically anything by not only Hatsumi-sôke, but also philosophers like Takuan and Musashi, and every time find something new, no matter how small, to think about.
     
  8. Senban

    Senban Banned Banned

    Personally I think that this is a brilliant idea for a thread. Good one Crow!

    (As such, it will not be allowed to be hijacked by historical discussions, rant fests and personal agendas - be warned).

    Hey, here's a good point. No different to other martial arts I suppose but training in the Bujinkan has given me the opportunity to meet some amazing people, to have incredible experiences and to travel to some cool places around the world. That's not why I train of course but it's a pretty neat side effect.
     
  9. TRMcKelvey

    TRMcKelvey Valued Member

    One great thing for me, is that the art accomodates physical handicaps. About four years ago my arthritic left hip went really bad. For me to do text book kamae or movement became out of the question. Considering myself semi-retired, I finally got to Japan, just to experience training at the source. To a person, everyone encouraged me to adapt my taijutsu to suit what I could do and to keep going. In other arts I've studied, I would have no choice but retire, but in the Bujinkan, I can continue to improve even with my limitations.
     
  10. Senban

    Senban Banned Banned

    Yep! As my partner always says:-

    "This is the BujinKAN, not the BujinKAN'T". :D
     
  11. TRMcKelvey

    TRMcKelvey Valued Member

    I love it, can I make it my dojo motto? :D
     
  12. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Yep. One of my students dropped out of training for some years, then resurfaced a year or so ago. In the meantime he'd been in a motorcycle accident and had a hip replacement. He's not letting it stop him.

    The female soldier I mentioned (we've been corresponding further) had an ankle shattered by that IED in Iraq. Just had her 5th surgery for that a couple of weeks ago and the doctors tell her it will never be back to 100%. . .yet she's interested in coming back to training to see what she can do. :cool:
     
  13. Senban

    Senban Banned Banned

    TRMcKelvey said:-
    Help yourself. All royalty payments made out in my name please! :D
     
  14. Crow

    Crow Valued Member

    Garth, many people who doesn't train in a particular style can still be interested in it and have opinions of it. A lot TMA'st don't train in sport martial arts but still have opinions and views on them and their training methods.

    My intent was to say something positive about ninjutsu from the outside. I can only gues the reasons you have to reply passive agressively. Almost like you didn't want people to get along in these forums.

    Then again, it might just be that I misunderstood you or that my way putting words weren't clear enough. Now, your dissatisfaction has been noted, so please, **** of. I have no interest in using the few posts that I make here in arguments when I try to start a positive thread about ninjutsu and the X-kans.
     
  15. Crow

    Crow Valued Member

    Keeping in line with the thread; more good things in Bujinkan that comes to my mind as an outsider.

    Bujinkan teaches a variety of weapons and unarmed techniques, making it very broad based. It also seemes to cater to variety of people; people who are interested in self-defense, martial arts in general and even purely those who take it as a more or less academic interest (I have personally met a few who started Bujinkan because of anime and manga hobbies - and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with that).

    The very few times I trained in Bujinkan class they allowed alot of experimenting and trying different stuff out - they actually encouraged it. It suited the method of training quite well in my opinion.
     
  16. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Crow,
    As a Bujinkan member I just want to say that I appreciate your attempt at doing something positive around here. You may not choose to train with us, you may have some problem with certain aspects of the Bujinkan, but you are trying to show that you have some respect for it and those that follow it. And if your thread here can help ease some of the tension that surrounds this board and certain posters, then that is a good thing in my book.

    Let us try to work together to keep this thread positive and maybe continue the trend. I think I am not the only one that feels a bit of thanks towards you for your efforts. I too do not want this thread to go to hell. So please let us just move on and concentrate on the positive.
     
  17. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Crow posted
    I actually belive your post was an amicable one, i just couldn't quite work out why you had posted

    Then wanted to start about the good in the Bujinkan and the X Kans, yet at the same time having no experience of them.

    Its a bit like me going over to the Hsing I forum and saying things about their martial art that are not particularly complimentary, then starting a thread about the good things in Hsing I, yet my only experince being from You Tube, a few books, having myself never trained in it myself.

    However i see now that your reason for posting is a positive one, so good post.

    Gary Arthur
     
  18. AMF321

    AMF321 Valued Member

    Without a shadow of a doubt, the friendships.
    The figurative and literal open palm stuck out for a hand shake and a hearty "Hi how are you" from people you may have never met before and are meeting for the first time at a seminar or other training event.

    I think the term is Buyu(?)

    Just my contribution to keep the thread in a good light.
     
  19. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    The Bujinkan is all about personal responsibility. Some people do not like that aspect, because it means more work. I personally love the fact that there is no one to blame but yourself.

    The Bujinkan is powerful for precisely this reason.

    -ben
     
  20. doc_jude

    doc_jude Banned Banned

    Yep, folks need to be responsible for their own training, and the results.
    unlike some other arts, where folks are led around by the nose.
     

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