The future of MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Adam, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Adam

    Adam New Member

    It seems that MMA is an art on the move and is quickly becoming more mainstream and has already evolved beyond small-event vale tudo with such prestigeous tournaments as UFC and Pride FC, although with altered rules.

    What do you think the future of MMA will be? McDojoization? Will it be the new TKD with a dojo on every street corner? Or will it evolve to even greater heights of technique and bring out even more great fighters?
  2. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

  3. stump

    stump Supersub

    MMA has a few traits that should hopefully save it against McDojoisation….

    Competition – it evolves based on what wins fights, there is little sentimental holding onto how things are done….if it works its correct. Got a theory?? Put it in the cage!

    Self Policing – the obnoxiousness that MMAists are accused of will save it from crappy schools, they will be “outed”. MMA has a particularly strong internet community (the underground, sfuk, etc etc etc). Credentials are often asked for…and the only ones that matter are fight records – either your own or your students.

    I would like to see MMA take over from Boxing as the primary fight sport…but I fear that grappling is not appealing enough for a mass market.
  4. Floorismyfriend

    Floorismyfriend New Member

    They need to put big money in putting together fights if they want to become more mainstream.
    For example getting big name boxers like lenix louis or oscar de la hoya and last but not least roy jones jr.
    If they can manage get ANY of these fighters into an mma ring it would make a huge leap into mainstream.
    It might cost them a pretty penny but in the long run it would greatly increase fanbase.
  5. Swoop

    Swoop Valued Member

    You don't need boxers to fight in MMA matches to make it popular. You need to make stars out of the people you have. Take Bob Sapp for example, he isn't the best fighter in the world but he has been marketed really well and now he is being recognised in places other than Japan (I saw a story about him on CNN while I was at the airport). The problem is when a guy like Bob Sapp comes along MMA fans tear him apart and hate him (do a search on the sherdog forum).
  6. Adam

    Adam New Member

    Also, I heard that Mike Tyson was scheduled to fight in Pride or K-1 at some time, although that might have been just a rumour. That would certainly give the championship a hell of a lot of media exposure, especially if Mike lost I think.
    By the way, MMA fans suck, Bob Sapp rules! :D
  7. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Totally disagree, I know what you mean but if anything that is exactely the reason it will make it more McDojo like. Competition breeds techniques suited for competition. I thought the whole point of MMA was to avoid this? I think that MMA could exist without Competition and instead should the emphasis should be on realistic sparring. The minute you court competition you start courting corruption. :(

    Even though is isn't the case just now in order for MMA to expand they have to appeal to a greater audience. In order to do that, in a competition sense, you need to introduce rules like boxing and kickboxing has that make things interesting to watch. When that happens its a matter or time before MDojos start cropping up.

    Now I'm not saying MMA fighting is boring, but to Joe Bloggs it just look like a fight and they have little appreciation for the techniques, whereas everyone can relate to a fistfight.

    I certainly think that MMA pressure testing, not in the ring. saves it,certainly not competition.

    Anyway guys were only 50 years away from electronic personal shields and aggressive DNA. Sooner or later all this will be just as redundant as MA vs Gun :D
  8. Swoop

    Swoop Valued Member

    Mike Tyson has already signed with K-1 and wants to fight Sapp boxing rules.
  9. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

    I just about agreed with you on this...but, people have been making claims without validations for years! ha ha
    Reputations are probably what is going to be the saving grace.
    Good schools have good reputations and produce good results...
    Anything that is "crap" will eventually smell!

    Yeah...agree with you here on MMA taking over boxing...Boxing to me has just become so polluted...I mean I love to watch a great boxing match...but, there doesn't seem to be any great champions...cuz, everyone is a champion...the one thing that is always bumming me the splintering of sanctioning bodies and lack of unification of titles...

    I don't know if we will ever have an Undisputed Champion in any sport...but, man, it would be cool to be that guy/girl if he WAS possible! just take your matches and whoop booty!
  10. stump

    stump Supersub

    Tosh what I meant is that the competition allows the evolution of these techniques that have a good "batting average" when it comes to working against a resisting opponent.

    A lot of what is good in MMA competition is good for the street...not all - but a lot. Right now most fans are practicioners - this has always been a problem with Martial arts...but not in Boxing surprisingly. But the number of non practising fans interested in MMA is increasing and long may that trend continue

    There are two ways to make it more popular....water down the rules or educate the punters....I believe the latter should and will be the road chosen.

    Personally I think that while everyone competing is not necessary the leaders of the sport being involved in competition is very necessary. This is how it is going to be pushed forward. What is learned in the ring is disseminated among the non competing MMAists.

    MMA is a problem there and that shouldn;t be seen as a drawback necessarily. At least when competing you are facing someone who is trying to kick your head in. in that way it shares a lot with a real fight.....moreso than a lot of people who claim to train self defence yet have never faced someone trying to do them serious harm. In that way MMA is far more realistic than self defence training.

    Personally I would rather see people like Couture, Liddle, Sudo or CroCop as the "faces" of MMA....Bob Sapp is quite a pathetic creature really
  11. stump

    stump Supersub

    <<<just about agreed with you on this...but, people have been making claims without validations for years! ha ha
    Reputations are probably what is going to be the saving grace.>>>

    Bulldog let me give you an example of what I mean.

    A certain martial arts instructor (Lets call him Joe :D) makes claims about how with his martial art he can beat all others. Now he is challenged to prove this in combat.....but he refuses to. This sort of thing means people can make paper reputations for themselves and never be tested.

    There is a strategy to deal with this sort of thing in MMA, moreso than in any other martial art......the cage. If you're mouthing about it- prove it by fighting an equally trained/equally built person and beat them. That's how the gracies made their reputation and that's how they will lose it if they don't back up their claim of taking on anyone and beating them.

    I'm not saying this is civilised or dignified but it makes sure people who talk the talk are prepared to put it to the test.....its probably the overriding philosophy of Mixed martial arts...if it doesn;t work...drop it- if it works ......use it!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2003
  12. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    I dunno I think you are being a bit idealistic. If UFC and the like didn't take the general populace by storm then I fail to see what MMA has got to bring to the table. I mean we live in an age where WWE wrestling gets more TV time than boxing

    People like boxing because it's accessible, you are asking Fat Joe bloggs a lot to appreciate grappling as opposed to out and out striking. Plus "tapping out" isn't a good viewer pay off. Knock outs are acceptable because people rarely get to see the after effects of long term boxing competition, but theviewer still gets the ooooo factor.....regardless of background.

    IMHO MMA in 50 years time will be in the same position as all the other TMA's, just another Kung Fu. Pessimistically, I think MMA is nearing it's transitional point where in order to get bigger it's going to have to "sell out" somewhere to attract more people.

    In the year 2050 I bet we are back to guys fighting each other with weapons like gladiators. It's all circular. :D
  13. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

    I totally get what you are saying...I do know however that some people can sell ice to eskimoes...! ha ha...

    And I know that there are guys out there who not only issue challenges but take ones that are offered too...

    Let me say that I think the Gracies did a great job of building their repuation as fine fighters...but, let's be honest...why do most foreigners come to America in the first place? Freedom, yes, but, Good Golly Miss Molly, we will buy just about anything...and the Gracies did a great job of selling themselves and their art...They have indeed built their reputation as a family on their victories...both in competition and in on the street...

    However...first it was UFC in the states doing a big MMA event...and then here we are in 2003 and we have more than a dozen just like it, splinter groups and organizations with different rules, champions...what not...

    While I totally think that you silence critics or skeptics on the mat as a competitor....I know the truth is that we ARE NOT GOING TO SEE a lot of great matchups unless the $$$ is there...MMA matches don't pay enough for a fighter to support a family, his training, a car payment, medical bills...let's face it...UFC 1, 50 grand...while it's a lot of's no where near a 10 million dollar guarantee for the newest heavyweight champion of the boxing world...

    Even the K1 payout of 1 million...but, look at what you have to go through to get it...

    Anytime the allure of $$$ is the reason behind proving've lost the true spirit of competition in my book...look at football, just believe that once non MMA found out that they could make $$$ from's not going to get will get worse...

    I just don't know if there really is much honor, intregrity and the true warrior spirit in any of the arts anymore...everywhere I turn, someone is trying to sell you this or that...and that's their right...

    I guess I'm a little old school...

    Legends are born everyday...just pick up the latest magazine and read their press

    I don't really have an answer how to help MMA...I'm a fan...I'm a martial artist...I support the arts and those who practice them...
  14. stump

    stump Supersub

    Bulldog that's one of the best posts I've read on MAP in a long time. You paint an equally pessimistic and bright future at the same time.

    Yes the Dollar rules to a large extent - but that's life in general. There'a a lot of S H one T I'd like to see out of MMA and I dread the possibility it could go down either the routes of WWE or Boxing...

    ...still despite the problems the sport will face I see the future of MA as being healthier for the existance of MMA...I hope I'm right.

    Tosh maybe I'm being a little nieve...hell I can hope can;t I?? :D
  15. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Now just to avoid you thinking I'm going soft. I'll have to say I wholeheartedly agree :D

    Okay, okay one of the few times it's happened but yes I agree with stump MMA has given TMA and MA in general a kick up the ass ;)

    But hey, I'm part of a new bread of TMA that knows the score ;) What this space I'll have you doing Kata in your PJ's (in zero gravity) by 2050 :D :D :D
  16. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Actually, a great deal of MMA Mcdojoization has already taken place. Every money martial art out there has now unearthed their "secret" or hidden grappling techniques, claiming they had them all along.

    You have point fighting schools teaching grappling on the side, when the instructor is qualified via videotape or a couple of seminars. He learns watered-down techniques, which are further watered down by his inability to convey to his students the finer details he missed.

    BJJ has few true black belts as opposed to the other arts out there, and the demand for grappling is high enough that you have relative newcomers to the art teaching to those who don't know any better.

    I think the sport of MMA will only get bigger, and that can mean further concessions to athletic commissions, politicians, and television executives, bringing the sport even further from reality.
  17. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I've seen this more than once myself - it's all too common in Filipino Martial Ats too.
  18. Cyph

    Cyph Banned Banned

    BJJ and MMA are seperate things i feel... i think it'll hard to mcdojalise MMA because it's all based around no holds barrred fighting... i think most people drawn to mma are people who have guts and a bit of fire in them, so they'll naturally want to spar. people who aren't into full contact stuff will shy away from it and avoid it

    BJJ however, i've sadly seen belts handed out... when it comes to wrestling, they generally don't want to wrestle... and if they do, they tap like a bitch. ;)
  19. stump

    stump Supersub

    To a large extent while belts have been handed out in BJJ a lot of these are handed to people who have already graded to a high level in other related disciplines such as giving a Judo BB a BJJ Blue is not quite the same as Mcdojoisation.

    I don't approve of the practise however .

    And the TMA/other groups that suddenly "find" grappling in their forms, while they are jumping on the bandwagon I dont think theyll fool too many people in the MMA community.....if their stuff starts winning (which it won't) then their place will be earned
  20. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

    Jumping on the bandwagon...

    I always thought that phrase had a two edged cutting edge to it.

    1. Whatever is hot in MA will start shooting up in schools that don't teach those techniques or arts...Then there are those who are legitimately trying to expand their knowledge of the arts overall...

    Bulldogs exhibit A. Filipino arts B. Grappling C. BJJ D. Joint Locks

    You can't beat a guy down for authentically seeing something that he would like to learn from another system and going after the knowledge.

    You CAN beat the guy down who is teaching the "other guy" if both come together realizing they can cash in...

    Bulldog exhibit A. Instructor attends "intensive" certifictation seminars in Mee dont Know (like that? It's a new system! ha ha)...Instructor who is clueless pays instructor of Mee dont Know system $$$ to become certified to teach this new system to his students...He is granted "Master" status, because after all, he was trained by the "Grand Master" and they share emails and talk on the phone after the "intensive" seminar...Grand master then tells his newly certified "master" to charge his students to join International Mee dont Know federation, thus making Grand Master $$$ and increasing "master" student enrollment for offerning this "hot new secret deadly unbeatable artform"....

    Here's what I keep finding...

    Video courses...I think that some are really great, I have learned a lot of things from some of them...but, I still don't fully or completely understand the when's, why's and hows'...I just know it works on my brother...ha ha
    I, for one, would never pass myself off as a certified anything from taking a video course...I would not have a problem showing some stuff to students, but, my approach is probably why I don't make tons of $$$ teaching things I don't really know...

    I usually go, " hey, check this out! I have been watching some videos and I want to see what you guys think of this..."

    Most students think it's cool to have some new techniques to view...but, I always end it with saying...I'll look into their seminar schedule and perhaps we can get some hands on with these folks...And if there is someone locally that I am interested in training with in another art... I DO...and I encourage my students to go where they feel they fit in...


    If people are getting video courses for private study...I don't have any problems with that... But, if they are getting video courses to try to make more money teaching something that they have no idea how to teach...then I got a problem...

    And that's what I'm finding with MMA...

    I've been in the arts for 16 years...I first started in TKD and still practice it...I have studied Aikido, Aikijutsu, Karate-do, Kickboxing and I wrestled in my school days...I feel I have had a pretty well rounded MA education...I know how to strike, kick, wrestle, use joint locks and some chokes...

    Does this make me qualified to teach MMA? In my opinion, no...
    I think a lot of my fellow peers think they are qualified to offer submission fighting classes though...cuz, they'll send one or two students to seminars, who then come back and become "instructors"...

    Come on guys and girls...I know I'm not the only one who is familiar with this scenario...

    It's happening down the street from me!

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