I feel pretty ambivalent about this topic. Do you care about the philosophical/self improvement goals of judo or do you just want to learn how to toss people? It seems like this is all they talk about over on judo forum. But maybe that's because there are a handful of people who can crank out a novel length post on it at the drop of a hat. Am I right in my assessment that they care more about the philosophical side than the fighting side. Like any time someone suggests something that would make your average judoka a better fighter they go on about the purity of judo. Is it likely that at some point I'm going to have to choose between the do and learning how to fight?
There are some recent changes to the competition rules that suggest a purity side such as the banning of leg takedowns and the effective taking away of groundfighting. That said whats left is still pretty good and individual schools shouldn't be so far up their backside to stick to the letter of that stuff. So no you should be able to join and fight and not give a toss about the do if you want.
Surely the self-improvement that people talk about in martial arts is self-improvement through sport: hard training and positive attitude and gentlemanly competition. It's not a choice you make between training or philosophy. It's also not something that a change in rule set can either foster or prevent really. Bad refereeing can encourage bad sportsmanship, but surely whether it's judo, karate or pig-wrestling, self improvement comes through throwing yourself wholeheartedly into your training.
after many years of participation in judo, I have to say that I never encountered any philosophy or spiritual direction or guidance. It was always a sport first and foremost. OK so personal development was there, by encouragement of the physical aspects, and grading, but it was always directed towards competition results. Sorry if many disagree, but that's my perception over just short of 30 years exposure, admittedly not training 100% of the time, but it did cover a number of different styles in the UK. It's good, friendly sport. I personally wouldn't describe it any other way.
This is why reading judoforum drives me up the walls. There's so much good information and so many years of experience there but it all get buried in what is quite frankly petty BS. The do in judo is partly, as people above me have said, in good, honest hard (not to mention painful)work. The other part is in using the skills and knowledge gained from that work to give back to your club, the community that supports your club, and the world in general to as much of an extent as you are able. Of coarse this is all just IMO, so hey maybe the single most important thing in judo really is wearing only white and refusing to embrace any new ideas but by god I hope not.
Would you say though that this is in contradiction to what Kano intended Judo to be? And is probably a result of olympic inclusion and all the associated rules (changes, ammendments etc)? Not that Kano intended Judo to be anything other than a sport but that he had "higher" aspirations for what that sport would do (do? ).
I do Judo to learn how to drop people on their heads. That being said, I don't object to the philosophical stuff being taught. What I do object to is people who think that, because they really care about the philosophical stuff, it makes them better and more complete human beings than the rest of us and gives them the right to judge everyone's motives for doing things. I hate this attitude in any style and think that those who have it need to get a grip and move on - they're not Samurai living in Feudal Japan and they have no god-given right to push their ridiculously fanatical attitude on the rest of us! The recent discussion on how Ronda Rousey was betraying Judo because she wanted to compete in MMA is a prime example of the above attitude and an embarrassment to me as a Judoka (actually as a martial artist in general)! :bang:
柔道 (jyuudou) without 道 (dou) would just be jyuujutsu (柔術). Judo teaches integrity, honesty, gentlemanly conduct and self-control. When I started Judo I was taught never to use it to fight, only in self-defense. I was also taught never to use Judo to hurt others (I have never injured anyone in 10 years of Judo). 柔道 without 道 is the same as every other grappling art. The way of Judo is the essence of principal and conduct. This is the difference between a Judoka and any other martial artist.
I don't have a problem with those goals ( I think). But it seems like anyone who complains about the ijf rule changes neutering it as a fighting art is told that none of that matters because of the philosophical stuff. How do you feel about people who don't care about all that stuff and just want to learn how to throw people?
YAWN.... if you want philosophy read a book if want to do a combat sport do judo shut up and enjoy the ride.
haha I think its more to do with money, tv deals, keeping it in the Olympics and a ridiculous notion of differentiating it from the ever increasingly popular sports of MMA and BJJ even tho it pre-dates both. pretty naive to pin the IJF's recent actions that no one but them seems to support on wanting to introduce more philosophy into it I think that's pretty near the bottom of there list of reason for almost completely destroying the ground game of judo among other ridiculous actions.
not knowing Kano or his original intentions (for obvious reasons) I am always a little circumspect when others 'interpret' or add their own meaning. We see it often enough in todays world, where someones words are often misquoted, or taken out of context. However I would have to agree that whilst he (Kano) wanted to make it safer, and also to encourage physical development with rules so that one person could be compared to another with some reasonable expectation of consistent quality and less risk of death...... that maybe it has gone too far. In the uK, the British Judo Association have very recently gone over to the concept of a 'teaching/technical' grade rather than their original exclusive attitude to competitive grades. This I think is a good thing if implemented correctly. Another (small) UK style Zen Judo, have a more technical and non-competeive based system, which works on a different level, but is missing some of the competitive / alive training that should be present. That's why I practice a jiu jitsu style, which includes the Kodokan syllabus as only part of what we do. This way I can concentrate on technical application of technique, and train as hard as I want to with a willing Uke (not necessarily a compliant uke!). Also training judo from a non-judo grip grip (i.e. real attacks rather than wrestling) brings a new dynamic aspect to the well know competition techniques. just my 2cents worth of opinion. I like judo and know lots of others who take it very seriously, but personally I think it has lost much of the original intent.
Greetings each I'm going to be brave here and stick my neck out lol In my humble opinion and limited knowledge I see there are two types of Judoka Those that want to just win and those that want to learn. How the individul decides to decipher what I have written will be seen in any reply to it
What the frak is that supposed to mean? Do you think you can win at the Olympics without learning a ton? You make no sense.
No, but there is a difference in mindset between those who train with the mindset that they want to absorb as much info as posisble to achieve their maximum potential and those who go along whose only care is throwing down on the mats and kicking someone else's ass. At least thats how I interpreted it.
