The Death of Heroism? (... and American Movies, for that matter). From an interview in the New York Times with Michael Tolkin, the screenwriter of Robt. Altman's The Player where he mentions ideas well worth discussing. (I just wish the article went into a bit more depth.) Thoughts Folks? (If this doesnt' generate debate, nothing will)
If what he's saying is that American charaters and films about justice and the underdog are dead, I might agree with him. I think that American cinema(the few good films) is now focusing on inner struggles and emotion, without heroisim. Like The Squid and the Whale. and American Beauty.
Heroes maerica never had any cinenaic heroes, that were real, Even John Wayne paid to get out of the draft. the problem is, americans believe what they are fed in propoganda films, look at the video of bin laden at the last election, clearly a hoax, but the all singing all dancing public believed it :bang: Democracy is dead :cry:
America never had any cinematic heroes that were real? You've got to be kidding, here are some who served in WWII, don't know where your from but I'll bet they helped save your countries butt. Don Adams, actor/comedian, United States Marine Corps, fought in the Battle of Guadalcanal. Eddie Albert, actor, United States Navy, winner of the Bronze Star for actions during the Battle of Tarawa in November, 1943. James Arness, actor, United States Army, severely wounded during the Battle of Anzio. Lew Ayres, actor, Medical Corps, conscientious objector who served in the Pacific and New Guinea. Lex Barker, actor, United States Army, enlisted as a Private, rose to the rank of Major. Fought in the North African campaign and in the Allied invasion of Sicily where he was badly wounded. Fred Blassie, professional wrestler, actor, recording star. United States Navy. Ernest Borgnine, actor, United States Navy. Charles Bronson, actor, United States Army Air Forces, tail gunner on B-29. Mel Brooks, actor/director, United States Army, served as an engineer in North Africa. Raymond Burr, actor, United States Navy, wounded in the Battle of Okinawa. Art Carney, actor, United States Army, wounded in the leg during the Battle of Normandy. Jackie Coogan, actor, United States Army Air Forces, volunteered for hazardous duty as a Flight Officer for the 1st Air Commando Group, flying gliders. Tony Curtis, actor, United States Navy, served from 1942-1945 aboard a submarine tender in the Pacific Theater. Personally witnessed the Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay. Charles Durning, actor, United States Army Rangers, participated in the Battle of Normandy landings and was one of the few survivors of the infamous Malmedy massacre. Douglas Fairbanks Jr., actor, Lieutenant Commander, United States Navy, assigned to Lord Mountbatten's Commando staff in England where he formulated an idea for a unit designed to create military deception involving fake beach landings to confuse the enemy. This unit was called the Beach Jumpers and it saw its initial action in Operation Husky. Later, after the invasion of southern France, Fairbanks was awarded the U.S. Navy's Legion of Merit with bronze V for valor, the Italian War Cross for Military Valor, the French Legion d'Honneur and the Croix de Guerre with Palm, plus the British Distinguished Service Cross. Bob Feller, baseball player, United States Navy, chief of an anti-aircraft gun crew aboard USS Alabama, earned five campaign ribbons, eight battle stars. Glenn Ford, actor, naturalized US citizen, United States Marine Corps, winner of the Legion d'Honneur . Clark Gable, actor, Major, United States Army Air Forces, winner of the Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal. Harold Gould, actor, United States Army, fought in a mortar company in France. Hank Greenberg, baseball player, Lieutenant, United States Army Air Forces, scouted B-29 base locations in China-Burma-India theater. Sterling Hayden, actor, OSS, United States Marine Corps. Winner of the Silver Star. Joseph Heller, writer/satirist, United States Army Air Forces, flew 60 combat missions out of Corsica as a B-25 bombardier. Charlton Heston, actor, Staff Sergeant, United States Army Air Forces, B-25 radio-operator/gunner stationed in the Aleutian Islands. Russell Johnson, actor, United States Army Air Forces, flew 44 combat missions as a B-24 gunner, earning a Purple Heart when shot down over the Philippines. Brian Keith, actor, United States Marine Corps, served as aerial gunner, earned the Air Medal. Norman Lear, tv writer/producer, United States Army Air Forces, B-17 radio operator with the 463rd Bombardment Group, 772nd Bombardment Squadron of the 15th Air Force with whom he earned the Air Medal. Delbert Mann, director, United States Army Air Forces, B-24 pilot who flew 35 combat missions in the European Theater of Operations with the 8th Air Force. Lee Marvin, actor, United States Marine Corps, wounded during the Battle of Saipan. Walter Matthau, actor, United States Army Air Forces, Staff Sergeant, B-24 radioman-gunner in same group as James Stewart. Glenn Miller, band leader, Captain, United States Army Air Forces, killed on active duty. Robert Montgomery, actor, Lieutenant Commander, United States Navy. Tom Poston, actor/comedian, United States Army Air Forces, Captain, served with distinction in the European Theater. Tyrone Power, actor, Second Lieutenant, United States Marine Corps, served with VMR-253 during the Battle of Iwo Jima. Don Rickles, actor/comedian, United States Navy, served as a seaman aboard USS Cyrene, a motor torpedo boat tender. Jason Robards Jr, actor, United States Navy, winner of the Navy Cross. Dan Rowan, comedian/tv personality, United States Army Air Forces, flew P-40's in the Pacific Theater, scoring two kills before being shot down and seriously wounded over New Guinea. Winner of the Distinguished Flying Cross with Oak Leaf Cluster, the Air Medal, and the Purple Heart. Rod Serling, screenwriter/tv personality, United States Army, paratrooper who served with the 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific Theater, earning the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star for bravery. Warren Spahn, baseball player, United States Army, combat engineer who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and at the Ludendorff Bridge, earning a battlefield commission. Also won the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star for bravery. Rod Steiger, actor, United States Navy, served aboard destroyers in the Pacific Theater. Jimmy Stewart actor, served in the United States Army Air Forces; Stewart flew 20 combat missions. Postwar, in the Air Force reserves, he was promoted to brigadier general. John Russell, actor, United States Marine Corps. Robert Ryan, actor, United States Marine Corps Kurt Vonnegut, writer, United States Army, POW in Germany. Jack Warden, actor, United States Army, paratrooper in the 101st Airborne. Ted Williams, baseball player, fighter pilot, United States Marine Corps. Jonathan Winters, actor/comedian, United States Marine Corps, served in the South Pacific. Ed Wood, director, United States Marine Corps, fought in the Battle of Guadalcanal.
... and Audie Murphy who was cast as a cinematic hero BECAUSE he was a real life hero. You don't get a Congressional Medal of Honor out of a box of Crackerjack.
Lee Marvin fought in the invasion of the marshall islands where I live. Audie Murphy is a mixed bag. Some of his men claimed he was reckless and wasn't concerned about his mens well being, only what he could do.
Yes, he did, and from that comment I can only assume he never saw them. He's got some points... Hollywood the institution is a cynical place, and its grown more and more cynical over the years. Optimism is not "cool". You need to believe that we are all heading to heck in a handbasket because of all those idiot red-staters. Hollywood has always been full of itself, but its reached the point where most of the moviemakers have no idea what most people want. Also, the studios have been swallowed up by corporations. Corporations who might be very good at some things, but have no clue what making entertainment is all about. They want formulas, and that thinking has completely overtaken mainstream Hollywood. They believe that the quality of a movie is of secondary importance (if that), and the way to make money is to capitalize on brand/franchise names. That's why we get so many sequels, remakes and TV-to-Big-Screen movies. As for heroism, its there, but he's right that its far less prevalent. Today's movies want to show flawed heroes. They think people need to identify with them, as opposed to aspire to them. This gets back to the cynicism within Hollywood, and how that influences what gets made more so than what people really want to see on screen. But the guy has a tremendously overblown sense of Hollywood's importance.
I tend to agree with Pride & Poise. The writer has some good points. I think it is not just Hollywood that's gotten cynical, it is a significant portion of the American public. What I find interesting is his commentary on Joseph Campbell. My experience is the opposite of what Halbfinger writes. Growing up in the 1980's, I felt like movies that captured that MYTHIC essence were rare and far between. And most sequels were rehashes of the original plot, rather than developing the story. What I've seen in the last ten years or so have been an increase in quality movies. I would attribute some of that to Joseph Campbell's work, and the rest to works like Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way". But I do not think the mythic journey can be formulized in the way Halbfinger suggests. I agree with P&P that the corporations love to TRY formula. But I think when the writers and directors and actors try to *fake* it, then the American public sees through the fakery. I think to really reach people, the writers and directors have to internalize Campbell and Cameron's lessons. To make GOOD movies, the writers, directors, and ideally actors have to put THEIR OWN heart and soul and experience into it. They can't use it as a gimmick, they have to make it real. As for LoTR... from what I've been reading, Tolkien himself was on the same track as Joseph Campbell wrt the power of myth. Tolkien was trying to create a mythology for Britain. Not allegory, but metaphor and symbolism, Living Myth. The Hero's Journey in LoTR already existed in the original books.
i Think rocky (just number 1) was the best example of american spirit, not so much heroism but of inspiration. LOTR a childs film!!?? what rubbish, i dont think heroism is dead in cinema, but it was milked so long in the 80's its hard to do without the cheese of the all american hero.
