The "Basic Four" ground position flow drill

Discussion in 'MMA' started by YODA, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    That's teh BJJ variation certainly - froma CACC/sub grappling perspective "standard" kesa offers plenty of opportunities for neck cranks and a plethora of other attacks. Many of them are prohibited in BJJ hence it has fallen from favour, but this is more to do with ruleset evolution rather than any inherent technical weakness

    Take any position and it has the ability to be countered/reversed and kesa is no exception. Used properly it causes fits
     

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  2. python44

    python44 Valued Member

    Poor example..... A Judo black belt against a girl with the lack of proper training in BJJ
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Who still escaped and took her back IIRC........ Thats the Rouseys kryptonite there.
     
  4. python44

    python44 Valued Member

    Exactly.....
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Although she was dating Henry Atkins for a while.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA12qAz2E80"]Ronda Rousey Judo demo 11/13/2011 Dynamix Grand Opening - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    That was on the on the first one because her position near the cat have her opponent a kick off. In the middle of the cage she had no answer for it.

    Also Ronda fought off the back attack successfully
     
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    she had a answer, just couldnt use it because her grappling was no where near the level of her opponent, if it had been she would have escaped again, and if a judo Olympic medalist cant finish someone in scarf and gets their back taken trying it its probably not a great position

    And yes she fought off the back attack, she wouldnt have needed to if she hadnt attempted scarf hold in the first place, ive yet to see anyone in without a gi use scarf for anything other than a momentary pin, its not a great place to work subs or strikes it it was we would see it a lot more in MMA where all those cranks are allowed but we dont

    Modified scarf is a different beast but its still not as good as side conrol mount or backmount
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh no doubt, but as a transition hold or position it is a vital addition to an arsenal and should not be overlooked.

    Stephen Kesting wrote on it recently actually and echoes a lot of my thoughts...

    http://www.grapplearts.com/Blog/tag/kesa-gatame/
     
  9. python44

    python44 Valued Member

    Also forgot to mention about the OP's photo in reference to his guard. The legs are too low on the back...... legs should be higher on the back with the knees being near the opponent's arm pits for better control of his posture.
     
  10. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

  11. Zabrus

    Zabrus Valued Member

    She's very very good. Her ground game and ability to project are some of the best in all of UFC. She would be top 10 at her weight division in men.
     
  12. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker



    Never came across this, I use and have it done to me pretty often in BJJ, Prefer the variant where instead of controlling the head you have your arm under the far armpit, easier transition to other positions.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Most BJJ players elect for that variation, but it does reduce submission options too if you do that
     
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I feel the same way too. In the

    - 1st picture Side-Top (scarof-hold), you have controlled your opponent's right arm and his neck. You can either work on a joint locking on his right arm, or just squeeze his head to make him to tap out.

    - 2nd picture Cross-Body (side mount), you have allowed your opponent to have 2 free arms along with a free neck.

    You have worked so hard to obtain your control on one of your opponent's arms and his neck in your stand up game. To give it away in your ground game just make no sense to me.

    I truly don't see any good reason to switch from the 1st position to the 2nd position.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    |From side control there's a bunch of good submissions available against those "free arms" though.
     
  16. Da Lurker

    Da Lurker Valued Member

    If you do BJJ/groundfighting, surely you'll know why you need to go side control from scarfhold. How much is your experience?

    It's very basic, aka the core principle of BJJ. I was the same at first(though I kept it to myself), when I tried it, I noticed that there is no other way except side control. Just like every striker needs to go into zenkutsu dachi/forward stance(aka warrior pose) because it's the position one will assume at the end of a committed punch.
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    In light of the earlier discussion I'm just going the leave this right here....... :evil:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    40 pounds heavier, 19 minutes of side control submission attacks and back riding to tire your opponent out, then hit it in the last few seconds so if it goes wrong you wont be in trouble.....:evil:
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don't make me come over there......

    #makingKesaSexy
     
  20. vian11

    vian11 New Member

    thanks for showing us this
     

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