The art in Martial arts

In many of these post you have people whinning about, is this art a mc dojo or is that school a cult. Or what ever they want because they have the time and no life. They also want to say that this art can take out anyone in a fight.
But none of those people want to talk about the beauty in the art that.
It is called martial "art" for a reason. But I am sure this post will get blown off.
Because it is not about, this art vs that art. Or how this art is a cult because of there lack of understanding of what martial arts is really about (the art people)
Just give it some thought people, there is more to ma than beating people up.

 

Actually as far as I can tell the art in Martial Art is nothing to do with actual physical beauty.

It is more like "The art of blacksmithing" or "The art of plumbing" Not refering to physical beauty but to the aquirement of skill.

 

The reason we whine about mcdojos and cults is because we don't want to join mcdojos or cults, and if people know where and what they are, they can be avoided or forewarned before they sign a contract or anything. It's a matter of warning people that might get screwed over by a dodgy school.

You are right. "Art" is a big part of Martial Arts, and deserves respect as well. I can respect the beauty of Wushu, and any other art or artist that looks pretty when they do it. People don't have a problem with this, they have a problem with schools who do something thats just pretty and then talk about how deadly it is. We're not out to discredit schools whose performances are pretty to look at, we're out to discredit dishonest schools.

 

i think martial arts as an art form is awsome. I do dance... and i combine dance and martial arts = Martial Tap Arts. I say this because i totally recognize martial arts as an art form of movement, expression of self, personal growth, and a study of the beauty of what humans can do.

It is an wonderful artform. I think many miss out of the martial arts, art aspect of it because they are so focused on what, how their abilities and knowledge can be used against other people.. and do not recognize the true joy that you can find when it is just you and that style!!!

~NL~

 

I think you might be missing the point of those threads. Though I'll say this for you. There are entirely too many "it's just about fighting" responses flying around these days. It's a valid viewpoint... when it's not being crammed down your throat.

That said, the basic idea of those threads is that people in the know don't like frauds. It's as simple as that. They don't like seeing something they love corrupted. They don't like seeing other people conned. They don't like what it says about us as a community. Etc.

I think the term "McDojo" should be fed into a woodchipper, ala Fargo. It's outlived its usefulness in my opinion. But I think we're blurring two different objections here. I agree with you that a school shouldn't be labeled a McDojo simply because they emphasize things other than fighting. In my opinion, that's where the "art" comes in. Art is interpretive. It reflects the values of the artist. So I'm personally fine with different arts (all inspired by the idea of personal combat) emphasizing different things. I think, though, that they need to be honest with themselves and others about what they do. And that's hard. Not just because you have to be forthwright, but because you have to figure it out in the first place. You have to be in a constant mode of self-evaluation.

I don't think an art has to be aesthetically pleasing though. As Slindsay pointed out, another (perhaps more accurate) application of the term "art" is "method." And perhaps it would've been a whole lot simpler if we'd translated it that way in the first place.

To my mind, a martial art is simply a way to organize your work toward a goal that YOU CHOOSE. That's where the art lies. Your choices. Your expression.


Stuart

 

I agree that there is too much whining about such things. Our chief instructor, Soke Kancho Hanshi Dr Jesus H. King (praise be upon him) regularly warns us during the pre-class hypnotism to beware of those who heap scorn upon our style. I didn't get my black belt in 18 months by whining, I got it by training HARD, for 1 and a half hours EVERY week! Before I joined SKHD King (praise be upon him)'s temple I was bullied at school by big guys with funny haircuts, but SKHD KING (praise be upon him) promises me that by the time I get 7th Dan I'll have evolved into an untouchable, spiritual being. So screw all you guys who talk about McDojo's, I'll just keep sweeping the dojo floor and washing the master's gi because my reward is coming when I evolve into a man-god! It was all in the contract that the master told me he's written on my behalf and keeps in his safe. When I am a super being, that'll be $74,000 well spend. So sucks to you nay-sayers.

 

LOL

Seems to me that the aspiring man-god might need someone to wash his car. I'll do it for a rank of "dancing monkey in the spiritual court of Moosey-san."

 

Hmm, anyone else ever noticed that you never see common sense and Moosey in the same thread at the same time, kinda like Superman and Clark Kent, maybe Moosey is secretly common sense in disguise

Seriously though, Ap hit the nail on the head, lot's of peopole don't like seeing people being lied to, simple as that, if you know it's a lie then you don't want to see people being lied to, you don't enjoy it, it's nothing to do with people being insecure in their own art, they genuinely don't like what they are seeing.

At the same time what I see as the two spiritual sides of Martial Arts don't have to be ignored, the cultural spiritual side can be intresting and provide you with some insights into the art though I certainly don't think you should have to adopt it by any means.

The side that comes about from any forh of hard work, the more intangible side, is in my opinion crucial, the health benefits, the benefits in self discipline, the increase in confidence, all these things that you get from a MA are as importnat in some ways as the MA itself.

 

Truth be told I do get the point of the telling about the mc dojos.
But lets face facts here people, the best martial art is the one that you do.
We are all going to die some day. And not being the grandmaster of some art with good like power. We are going to end in some nurseing home with tubes in our bodies and the like. We all get caught up in the art is better than your art thing. NO art is perfect Not hwa rang do, bujinkan, Tae kwon do or any art that is out there, or will come out latter. Even the most holy of holy Jeet kune do is not perfect. It is about using your body in such a manner, that it is not unlike a dance like the last person said.
A very pain full one, but a dance non the less. And for those of you that do not see that, you might want to go back to class and learn a little more.
This is kind of the classical mess bruce was talking about, I guess we still have not learned our lessons.

 

Fair enough.

That's not a fact. I don't believe that about my art. People always say "you must think your art is the best, or you wouldn't be practicing it." That's also not a fact. I don't think there's a best art. But I can't practice ALL arts. So I make choices. And live with the uncertainty that they were the "perfect" choices.

I think there are some very relevant differences between the two. But I won't press the point.

Alternatively, we've learned enough to form a differing opinion, which in most cultures is probably okay.

True. But we can either hash out the classical mess or pretend we don't see it.


Stuart

 

...

 

The day they gave you a decent photo editing tool was pretty much the day your PhD failed wasn't it?

 

I really hate the term "McDojo". It is utterly to simplistic a way to comment on a school you do not like. Even in those schools that do not fit your definition of what a MA school should be, the training is more difficult than "do you want fries with that"!

That being said, the very unfortunate realization of the popularity of MA is that you will always get the shysters who open schools to make money and not to promote a MA style properly. I think that no matter how good or bad these schools do in competitions, they lack the core of what makes MA great.

My view that the martial arts were created as a means of fitness, self defence and unity between your mind and body? This is what I feel is missing from many MA schools.

 

McDojo is actually pretty strictly defined:

A school that costs a lot of money.
A school where if you pay for your belt you get it.
A school that has sub par BB's.

 

Sad but true.

 

No, it just the one that I do.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't get caught up in the "my art is better than your art" thing.

I don't like the term McDojo either, I think it's been beaten to death.

Now, if only you could put a cape on that moose.

 

I don't know about this one. Often the better places to train will cost more. You can bet a Gracie school is going to be able to ask more then, Bob's BJJ Academy.

Like one of my dubious acquaintances used to say: "It's easier to con one dollar out of one-hundred thousand people then it is to con one-hundred thousand dollars out of one person".

It's more about the cost vs. benefits of the training.

 

martial arts is mental

Not trying to sound like mr. miagi here, but i think true martial arts must be the combination of the physical and mental. meditation is the foundation of martial arts. the mental aspect is what makes martial arts special and different than simply a collection of strikes. The path toward enlightenment is what makes martial arts what it is… otherwise it would only be punching and kicking and we would call it "martial technique", not martial arts.

not trying to sound holyer than thou.

stu

 

I've gotta say that I agree with you on the point that martial arts is an art form, but, don't forget the martial part.

Take a look at what Merriam-Webster's online dictionary has to say:

Now, take a look at Art:

Now, take a look at Martial Arts:

Martial arts are arts, but, the are martial in nature. Yes, they can be *beautiful* in application, but, the person on the recieving end isn't seeing the beauty of a perfectly executed arm bar or break when they are face down on the pavement. The cultural aspects of training are not appreciated enough, in my oppinion, though. The term McDojo has been overused, and, the community as a whole, worldwide, needs to come up with a new term for the filth that prey on new students.

For the record, no, I don't get into "my art is better than your art" threads. Heck, I don't know enough about other styles to get into that type of topic, actually, and have no inclination to start.

regan

 

This is what I believe the "Art" In martial arts means.