The American Infallibility Complex

When have we ever tried to bomb someone into a cultural shift?

 

I was too young in the 80s to give an informed opinion, but definitely worse than the 90s.

At 26 (2006) I went to university as a mature student, and was horrified by some male's attitude toward women, and even more so at some women's attitude toward women. The use of racially pejorative terms was also far more common than when I was the same age, just some 6 or 7 years previous.

 

That was a joke, right?

 

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Yeah...it's a sawtooth and no mistake. So long as the downshifts come back up again and trend upwards (or downwards depending on how you measure something) we're doing something right.

 

Just saw you added that last paragraph.

That wasn't what I was saying.

I think we should be very careful about using Western cultures as shining beacons of all that is good.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and all that...

Now some incentives I think can work well, like having conditional trade agreements or aid to encourage countries to improve their human rights. But how many countries have been forced or shamed into improving human rights? It would seem that certain conditions have to be there in order for these ideas to take root.

 

It's been the opposite for me. It was only in discussions with my own generation that I started properly considering the plight of minorities. This can change however depending on your social groups, Sports Clubs at University are notorious for inequality and unfortunately a night with the Rugby Lads will probably entail some very different gender discussion when compared to "The Thespian Society".

The 1980's included the rise and fall of the National Front. Nowadays the far-right fascist movements are in pieces, with numbers dwindling they are frequently out-numbered at there own Marches by UAF (Unite Against Fascism) counter-demos. Largely the far-right find it difficult to gain ground these days because people are so wary of the kind of things groups like the EDL stand for and so racists often have to be a lot more cloak and dagger.

The EDL - for instance - do a very good job of covering up whenever one of their members gets snapped on facebook with a Nazi flag in his bedroom or filmed chanting slurs at racial minorities but people are now well aware that they are a political group to be avoided.

I'm sure we have plenty of casual racism that still needs to be addressed, but the formal racism that used to be a real factor in our politics has all been but banished to the fringes of the spectrum. Now it's tacitly implied and hidden racism, with overt displays of racism being reserved for private settings when no one is around.

And No... it wasn't a joke. We have never bombed people into another culture, we have taken over and then tried to re-instate our own culture but these were not attempts to "civilise the savages" they were merely instrumental in achieving larger goals concerned with the acquisition and maintenance of territory.

 

I don't care who had writing in what century. If, even today, a government is repeatedly sentencing rape victims to lashes (Maldives) or death (Afghanistan), there's a problem there today that needs to be called out and not excused with moral relativism.

 

I don't think anyone is doing that are they?
People are merely reacting to the assertion of the OP that western cultures aren't tangibly better or more moral than other cultures.
When you can actually point to any number of moral advances and differences that make real differences to real people's lives.

Without that assertion this thread wouldn't even exist.

 

Yeah, I've thought location probably has something to do with it too, but I do think there has been a general shift nation wide.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE"]Stewart Lee on Political Correctness - YouTube[/ame]
I'll leave this here.

 

The thing is though...if I see my next door neighbour beating the crap out of his kids do I say something about it or do I just serve as a gentle role model by not beating up my own kids?
Or do I shout over the fence and "gently" explain to him the error of his ways?
Do I let him just get on with it as that's the "culture" in his house and his "culture" is no worse than mine and actually in other ways he's an alright bloke and I'm not exactly perfect myself?

 

From what I'm hearing it's largely to do with the Conservative traditional voter base now viewing them as weak and without principles. I'm actually worried about UKIP, because the Lib Dems aren't going to get anywhere now that they have back-stabbed the entire moderate left and I have doubts that labour could pull off a win in the next election. That only really leaves us with so many options.

 

If we learn something (in the nominally western world) about biology or medicine or physics or how the human body works or what causes a disease are we forcing that knowledge on the rest of the world if we expose them to what has been found out?
If a third world nations discovers a cure for cancer they can force that knowledge on me all they want.
Why should morals and ethics be any different?
Why should we keep schtum about the moral advances we have actually made?

 

I call the cops on him. I do NOT just shrug and say "who am I to judge?"

And this IS a two-way street. Europeans who supported the emancipation and suffrage and racial integration movements in the USA were not "culturally arrogant foreign meddlers who don't respect our culture" in my mind; they were a welcome kick in the butt to American society. But the same is true when Americans criticize Middle Eastern countries for their current abysmal records on women's and gay rights.

 

Whats so bad about the UKIP?

 

They're 'Little Englanders'. They'll start by taking us out of the EU, and when the economy goes down the toilet they'll probably bring back pounds shillings and pence to try to fix it.

 

How does leaving the EU destroy the economy? Not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to understand it from your point of view.

 

No problem at all.

The bulk of our trade is done with the EU. If we leave, our economy suffers. It's suffereing right now anyway, and the EU as a whole isn't in great shape, but it would be a lot worse if we leave. We need closer economic ties, not weaker ones. I suspect that the likes of UKIP are essentially protectionists at heart, and that is a total non-starter for the UK. We had to give up on protectionism when we could no longer produce enough food back in the early 18th century. We've been weddded to free trade out of necessity ever since.