The advice is "Hand over your cash" but what is the best way do this?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Tom bayley, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I am putting together a 1.5 hour long class on “understanding self-defence”. That introduces the key principles and approaches.

    But I have come across an important gap in my knowledge.

    It is generally recommended to give up your wallet or purse. But I have no idea about what is the best way to actually do this.

    I am thinking.

    Clearly state.

    1. I am giving you my wallet/purse! while taking it out

    2. This is my wallet/purse! while showing it to the attacker.

    3. This is the money in it! while showing it to the attacker.

    4. Here is the money! while lightly tossing the wallet / purse at the attackers feet and simultaneously taking a small step back to create distance.

    But what then?

    5. Walk slowly backward, then turn and walk away from the attacker (keeping eyes on them). Or at some point is it better to run.

    What would you do?

    · How would you hand over your wallet? Have you ever done this for real? What was it like?

    · How would you get away from the mugger after you have handed over your wallet? Have you ever done this for real? What was it like.
  2. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    BUMP. This is a really good question.Perhaps theres is not one optimal right way to do it, but there are probably many things you should avoid in what seems a purely simple an exchange of safety for resources. Will be interested to hear what people say about this. The only thing that comes to mind is Rory Millers admonition that some process predators masquerade as resource predators to get close to their mark (though its rare). If before or after you agree to hand over your wallet the aggressor tries to move you to a different location (to avoid witnesses) you should try and escape before you reach that stage. Will be interested to see what other peoples take on this is.
    axelb and David Harrison like this.
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Never happened to me, but I would be inclined to chuck it and run... mainly because mine never has any money in it and it would only aggravate them!

    I do know people who have witnessed mugging victims being given a beating after they have been robbed, so at least chucking it and running would make the aggressor's motivation clear. If they ignore the wallet and run after you, they were never interested in your money, and at least you have a slight head start.

    The most important consideration, if you have the ability to run faster than your attacker, is some sense of orientation so you know the shortest route to somewhere with more people around.
    axelb and Tom bayley like this.
  4. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Roundhouse kick to the face wearing a pair of Rex Kwon Do pants.
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    what are peoples ideas about the strengths /benefits of running? and what are the costs ?
    what are peoples ideas about the strengths/ benefits of walking? and what are the costs?
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I wouldn't personally run until it was clear it will get physical. I've had people attempt to set me up for the interview stage a few times, and for me the most important defence is how I position myself. Most importantly not stopping where someone wants to engage in conversation, but walking past them to a manageable distance so that you get a good 360° scan, see if they have a mate waiting in the wings, and because they will often want to block the exit of an area when they confront you. Basically don't be where they want you.

    Charity muggers are great for practicing this. They are practised at stopping people by skirting around the fringes of social norms, much like attackers who do the same. When I was living in the city I would play a game where I'd try to walk right past them while holding eye contact without them feeling they could engage in conversation.

    The ability to circumvent cultural norms, trust your spidey sense and know where the best position to be is, in any given situation (both in terms of defending against an attack and escaping) are the most important parts of preventing a would-be attacker from getting you caught in the interview stage, IMHO.
    axelb likes this.
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Hi Tom, I can definitely help fill the gaps in your knowledge.

    I'll send you a PM, as I have a proposition for you.
    axelb likes this.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ...part of the reason I wouldn't run before I was sure I had to is because of the hunting reflex of predators and packs. I've seen enough fights turn from social intimidation to violence once someone turns tail and bolts to think it's not always a great idea.

    It looks like the exact same reflex you see in a terrier or cat, that watches some small animal walking about with ambivalence, then as soon as it runs they get the blood lust and take chase.
  9. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    David I feel this way too. That is why I initially suggested backing then walking away. However I have no evidence to support this feeling with.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I only have anecdotal evidence. As far as I know there is no useful data for this. Maybe an expert could chime in...
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ...I should add that I've never had someone come straight out and demand my wallet, neither do I know anyone that's happened to. It always starts with some strange social interaction as the interview stage, and I've always personally managed to short circuit that before it escalated.
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    - Does your opponent have a gun, a knife?
    - Are you dealing with 1 opponent, or multiple opponents?
    - Is money important to you?
    - Is personal pride important to you?

    2 persons with knife can rob the whole bus just because nobody has courage to fight back. Is this the kind of society that you want to live in?

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  13. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I like the chuck and run method, throwing just behind them, they always turned in my experience and I'm gone.
    Not sure how this would work if you were with dependents (kids or other).

    Unfortunately I've been through this a few times in my teenage years, I got pretty good at reading it before it was even happening.

    Variations are likely to happen, and I'm sure those more experienced with details would have better method to deal with it.

    Having had it happen so many times I had a few coins in my pocket or a cheap wallet with a small amount of cash in. Used to carry notes and my keys in my socks.

    Still my most amusing incident I recall to this day I wouldn't recommend.
    I used to have a few vouchers "20p off a pack of walkers"
    Once I was caught off guard by 2 guys. Wasn't paying attention and didn't have my backup wallet.
    As I showed compliances whilst keeping enough distance I had done my usual body language to make they look around for witnesses or police, pushed the notes in to their hands whilst they were distracted.
    "Here you go mate 20p of walkers"
    I made enough distance to get away to look back and see their stunned faces.

    Don't think I'd ever try something like that again or recommend it.
    It did change my angle on dealing with situations, I think throwing some confusion or thought provoking process adds to the ability getaway.

    I don't think it's always the get out, sometimes it's a distraction, I've been through times where it was a setup so they could come at you whilst you trying to get your wallet out and they didn't want the money, just someone to beat up.

    I've never had it happen with the threat (showing) a weapon. A handful of times that have threatened to stab if I don't give them money, but I never saw the blade.
    David Harrison and Tom bayley like this.
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands.
    Mitch likes this.
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Thread moved to "Self Defence"

    Please don't offer foolish advice.
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Foolish? Is that the way you look at?
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    As an expert in the field of self protection, yes it is.
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I believe we are talking about that movie clip, 2 guys with knife rob the whole bus and rape the bus driver.

    Should self-defense include to protect that female bus driver from rapped?
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    We are actually meant to be helping Tom answer a question about the taking of a wallet and if it's better to stand your ground, or retreat / run away.

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