Technical question on repetitive roundhouse kicks

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Atre, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. Atre

    Atre Valued Member

    Actually, this applies to roundhouses generally...

    In stance**, in order to do a rear roundhouse with any power I need to rotate my lead foot outwards to 10o'clock.

    Now, I can either set my lead foot before my rear foot leaves the ground, or I can spin my lower body into the kick and allow my left foot to glide into position before my kick makes contact.

    The former telegraphs my movement in advance and I find it breaks my flow (if I'm using my hips and twisting a bit on the balls of my feet with each punch then moving a foot is detrimental) also the left foot at 10'clock is really unagile - I cannae move too fast from there

    The latter probably robs my kicks of their power and probably puts some serious torque down my standing leg.

    This all occurred to me because of an exercise recently that was alternating kicks and punches at high speed (left kick, 2 punches, right kick etc...) that really brought the issue to the fore.

    Ideas? Hints? Slap round the head for using sloppy technique?

    **stance being standard shoulder width+ placement of the feet. Left foot forward facing 1o'clock, right foot rear facing 2:30
  2. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    Let your foot turn out during kick, mine goes more than 10pm i let mine get to 8pm or so. Its out and back in an instant, timed together adds speed and power.

    Practice this, raise your knee out and up, as to kick turning your supporting foot but not extending leg. Hold this position in balance..
    This is your "transition" phase of your Mawashi geri, get comfortable with this and it'll flow more naturally :)

    Oh that, (high speed repetition techs) yeah i dont like that, not long ago we did that with stationary side snap kick, at a ridiculous pace lol.
    It was real messy, specially when we were asked for Kiai everytime also!. Strange sounds indeed, mix exhaustion with no time to get breath for next Kiai=LOL :)
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    The way I generally explain it to people is as this:

    1) If you're squared up you can enter into kick range by stepping off the line with your lead foot - at an angle out to the left. The ball of the foot is down and the heel is only lightly touching the mat. If you glue the heel down - further rotation which is often needed to adjust balance and power is going to be harder. This stepping out to the left automatically opens up your hips and facilitates the rear leg coming into the bag more horizontal. If the left hip is moving out and rotating out to your left the right hip will naturally follow. Of course you help this along by bringing the torque into it (eg. swimming with the arm on the same side your are kicking - assuming orthodox stance... this would be your right arm while you left arm and fist stays up in guard position).

    It's worth noting that if you stepping off to the left at an angle in order to throw the right leg roundhouse... you'll want to set it up. If you don't get your man busy upstairs with his guard then the kick is very easy to see from the get go. Telegraphing the right roundhouse is very common amongst novice fighters and results in many kicks that don't land or are checked... and against a good opponent it means the kicker can get countered big time.

    2) All of that being said... the other way to throw it is without stepping off the line and out to the left with your lead foot. So the other option is to stay squared up and light on the feet. Throw the roundhouse and swim with the right arm for torque keeping your left guard up and rotate on the ball of your foot entirely in place. This requires you to be light on the feet and be aware of what your feet are doing and how weighted they are. The Thai's are brilliant at this type of a roundhouse with either leg. It'd entirely dependent on you being able adjust the weight on the front foot and get enough rotation into the bag or opponent. One thing I often show students is that at the point I make contact with the bag my supporting legs heel has rotated entirely around and is facing my opponent. This shows the comittment to the kick... I've decided I'm not kicking him in the ribs... but cutting completely through him and coming out the other side. Visualizing this helps to power the kick up and through the opponent. But again... you have to be aware of the movement and rotation on the front supporting leg. If you have that front foot anchored to the floor and weighted and torque into it... you risk and ACL or MCL injury... the knees are not meant to be torqued like that. You HAVE to rotate that foot no matter what. This technique takes some practice - but it's a good one to have in the arsenal because it doesn't telegraph the kick as much as stepping off the line.

    On both of the above mentioned kicks the kicking leg must return to it's original position along the same path it went out on. People skip this portion often.. dropping it straight down after the kick which is an easy way to get swept or they try to bring in back to the rear position by flexing at the knee and stepping back into stance. Robbing themselves of a chance to throw multiple kicks efficiently. The swimming arm.. the arm on the same side your kicking with must continually torque in order to throw multiple roundhouse kicks effectively and with enough power on each kick. Ideally the last kick has just as much power as the first kick... but in practice with most non pro's... the power on the second kick trails off rather fast because of bad torquing or incorrect foot placement.

    At any rate... give it some thought. For more insight into the swimming hand for torque/balance/flow etc. take a look at Buakaw training multiple kicks:

    [ame=""]YouTube - Buakaw training HL[/ame]

    around 00:58 he goes to town with repetitive kicks.
  4. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    I like to fake a left front kick and then youve closed the distance and can place foot down "ready" for your right Mawash..
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame=""]YouTube - Kyokushin Kenji Midori Highlights by Xihyon[/ame]

    this is relevant

    proper ways to throw bloody powerful roundhouses :p
  6. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    He's asking becouse he hasnt been able to see from vids, or he would not be asking.!.
    Not tryin to be a smartass but that makes posting a vid without tips Irrelevant :)
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  7. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    Yeah, Kenji Midori is a phenom :)
  8. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    How long have you been doing kickboxing for? Not that long I'm guessing

    The roundhouse kick will improve as your flexibility does and wanting to step or pivot to throw the kick will become one movement as your hips get used to turning at various angles.

    A quick fix would be to throw a kick of your lead leg to set up the positioning for the back leg roundhouse.

    How are you generating the power for the rear kick? Using force by swinging your leg behind it or twisting your core and using the hip for power and leg for speed?

    Are you flat footed when training / sparring? What are your feet doing? Learning to be light on them and constantly moving will help a great deal if your just walking around throwing a kick now and again you will get picked off all day. Start skipping and shadow boxing on the balls of your feet to music
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    he asked about two types of footwork for the kicks. in the video you can see midori using both types, and using one of them to break two baseball bats held only from one end.

    on the subject of the support leg, you have to have a really freaking weak base for that to happen. just keep the weight on the ball of the foot and the leg stable but relaxed and it´ll turn by itself.

    also, contract the latissimus dorsi and serratus (the muscles under your armpit) on the side you´re kicking with, as you kick (not before kicking) to get the correct upper body motion (it should go basically in the opposite direction of the kick, but don´t twist too much or you´ll put pressure on your spine)
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  10. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    Quote "on the subject of the support leg, you have to have a really freaking weak base for that to happen. just keep the weight on the ball of the foot and the leg stable and relaxed and it'll turn by itself."
    For what to happen? Becouse you go on to describe the very same thing in the same sentence, as a better version?
  11. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    re: Original post

    "The latter probably robs my kicks of their power and probably puts some serious torque down my standing leg."

    emphasis mine
  12. DragonSpawn

    DragonSpawn Ronin

    turn as you kick, don't turn first, turning first separates your lower body from your upper body while turning at the same time keeps everything aligned properly
  13. Atre

    Atre Valued Member

    Yup, sorry, bad post on my part; 10pm is the minimum to get my right leg touching opponent's centreline - I actually go round past 9pm when kicking at pace

    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  14. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    no i mean you need to have a really weak base (at least at the particular moment of kicking) to hurt your leg with that. if your weight is on the ball of the foot, the leg turns by itself.

    seven years of karate, mate, trust me :p
  15. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    flexibility does help with speed, momentum and high of the roundhouse kick so if you have not been doing it very long things will still take some time.

    If the feet are flat on the floor you still flat footed you need to be on your toes allows for moving, cuts out 2 steps for pivoting the foot and makes transition from a movement to a kick so much easier and is not so easily broadcasted.

    The core should help build up the speed of the kick again having a flexible core as well as a 6 pack should help ;) you need to turn the kick past point of impact by an inch or two and open up your hips to allow your entire body behind the kick (i.e leading with the hip)

    I would break down the kick 1 step at a time and check your position and do them slow but keeping your muscles tense good work out and good for keeping your muscles in check for when you through the kick for real.

    Id over step your lead leg to open up your hips to begin with and bring the back leg around that way, ill try and sketch something out when I get a moment
  16. Atre

    Atre Valued Member

    Okay, I clearly misinterpreted what you said - whoops...What do you mean by a base and what are the defining characteristics of a strong one?

    Cheers, I wasn't disparaging flexibility, only meant that 7yrsRowing+genetics gives me some high quality bendy.

    Also should've said this earlier: Thanks for the help everyone !
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    standing with good balance, and a firm but not tense support leg while you kick. if you super tense the leg, your hip joint will not move and you will fall on your ass and possibly hurt your knee. if it's too relaxed your leg will twist. but it's bloody hard for any of those to happen.

    just watch the video i posted and look at kenji's legs, it's all there :p
  18. UNarmed

    UNarmed Valued Member

    Not even god could squeeze more power and speed out of that technique!
  19. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    Alot of the speed and power and the ability to torque repeatedly has to do with how strong your waist and core is.
  20. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I do believe I got a mild erection watching that Baukaw vid.

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