Tech and the FMA

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Pat OMalley, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Been a bit quite here lately so I thought I would post this:

    With the advent of the internet, Youtube, Facebook and Smart Phones has this changed your outlook on FMA and has it been for the better or for the worst.

    Your thoughts on the Pro's and Con's of our tech society on the ancient arts.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Pro: It has become more popular and techniques can be shared much easier via Youtube.

    Con: Dragonball Z Warriors thinking they can turn "Super Sayian"

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYxCrugJj_o"]Super Saiyans are REAL (ORIGINAL) - YouTube[/ame]

    Cringey stuff.
     
  3. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I agree with Chadderz comments.

    In addition, since I only get to train FMA infrequently with an instructor, I've found videos are a great way to review material that I might remember wrongly or simply forget if I don't have some reminder of what it was that we did.

    However, a big danger of video is in taking things out of context. I remember training with one GM who moved a million miles per hour to me. He told me to never grab the arm because if I grabbed him, he had me... and it was true. The moment I grabbed (rather than checking as I should have) his arm, he countered and I was done for.

    I struggled with the movements and the GM told me that it took years to get them down to where they were useful.

    Instead, I was given an alternative method where I checked, used arm destruction, and after stunning the enemy, I was able to use a two-on-one grab to the arm to drive the fist into the ground. This was much easier for me to learn given my background.

    So here is the point. The GM said never to grab... which was true. I can bring up one of his videos and attempt to practice what he demonstrated. Although the principles are applicable, the particular movements would take me years to be truly practical for me in application. In other words, the video is not practical technique for me at this time and I learned this from the GM, but someone who just saw the video without that knowledge from the GM could think that is the way to use stick and knife, and end up with something completely impractical for them without knowing better.

    On the other hand, the particular method that involved grabbing could be seen as bad FMA because someone might try to grab before the enemy is properly stunned and/or unbalanced... but the grab done after the enemy is stunned/unbalanced first could be much more practical for someone to learn earlier on (before they have the years of developing the more complex movements you see on youtube for FMA).

    I guess what I'm saying is that what you see on youtube can be very impractical or full of assumptions and faults if you try to immitate it without having developed good fundamentals, principles, and having the opportunity to test it out for yourself.
     
  4. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    I love it.

    Over the last month I have been having Skype video calls with an student of mine who is now based in Korea where we have been going over material that he had just picked up while doing some intensive training in the Philippines. Talking and looking at different approaches, drills, and emphasis from different instructors. I can't even imagine doing that 10 years ago.

    Youtube, you have to sort the dross, but there are some real gems out there. Actually one of the incredibly valuable things for me is to find video of actual attacks/incidents/whatever and pass the links on to students so they can see how some of the attacks transpire. I know others have done this before, but now virtually all instructors can have access to the material, that may be revolutionary.
     
  5. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Hi Pat,

    perhaps the biggest benefit, for me at least, was that the net helped me to find the people I train with - albeit very infrequently for the last six months because of the babies :) .

    That would have been pretty hard to do using the old school methods of phone book, magazine, or word of mouth and the like. The FMA people seem to out ninja the ninjas when it comes to keeping a low profile.....

    The web is also great for these kinds of interactions with otehr stylists that would be very hard in the 'real' world, because we all live so far apart and have lives. On a personal level it also helped me to realise that some of the misgivings that I had felt about my earlier Aikido training were at least shared by other people.

    And lets not forget that the web is probably the planest greatest engine for the production of unintentional martial arts comedy,and for that it is worth it's weight in pure gold.

    paul
     
  6. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    From an FMA perspective it got me back into it. Through Youtube I became interested in Panantukan, and from Hannibal's posts I became interested in Dumog (my Kung Fu has always been very Chin Na and Shuai Jiao heavy, so the interface with the knife and the flow from standing to ground really interests me). So when some of the JKD guys I network with on Facebook because of CSW hosted Rick Faye for a seminar on Filipino empty hands and weapons, I went along. I had a really great time, made some contacts, and the next thing you know I'm in some guy's garage doing knife Hubud :)
    In the wider martial arts world, tech has been hugely useful to me. My Sifu lives in Canada, and many of my contemporaries are in the US, so Skype has been a godsend. Facebook secret groups have proven to be a great resource for sharing material, especially videos and discussing it.
    The big thing with smartphones is that I'm never without a camcorder now, and it automatically puts it in a format that allows me to publish it online with a couple of taps.
     
  7. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Nice replies folks.

    Let me tel you where I am with Tech?

    Well I got my first handycam back in 1990, it was the size of a small suitcase and cost a fortune, but got it I did, that was at the same time that I got my forst computor, not much on the web back then. But I video's everything, tournament, seminars, training and it means I have some classic footage of people long gone who where the top of the tree.

    Plus when I look back on myself I thought I was pretty dam good back then and so did a few others, but going over the footage now I think dam I was bad hehehehe but it has showed me how much I know now.

    Also a lot of the old Manong's no one knew who they where or what they did before Tech took off, as a matter of fact many beleived that a lot of it no longer existed and bang youtube and facebook, now the Manong's who could not afford to have a website promoting themselves and letting people know they existed are now online and are able to not only showcase their material but also interact me make new freinds around the world.

    Put it this way if it where not for the internet it may have taken a lot longer to have events such as the FMA festival where people from numerous systems of FMA share their info and systems which each other, something that would have been unheard of only 10 years ago.

    Yes you have to watch out for the keyboard warriors who are about aged 5 and claim to know everything in the universe but they supply us with some good entertainment and I do so love bashing a troll with facts.

    And as for the dross on Youtube, well I actually find it usefull in that it shows people how NOT to do it, I often get my guys to watch it and what it actually does is reinforce to them that what they are actually learning and the reason I am so hard on them to get it right, is all worth while in the end.

    And smart phones, well I lost mine about a month ago and wont get a replacement for two months and dam do I miss it, my break times are taken up with surfing the net for more info and can do that at the moment, looking for apps, searching footage and just generally scouring for good quality FMA on the net, and there is a lot out there, more than I would have thought possible 22 years ago when I got my first video camera and PC.

    Videos are great referances for your training and I encourage all my guys to video as much as they can, especially if they only get to see me now and then, after all when they are there I fire tons of material at them and they would be hard pressed to remember even 30% unless of course they have their cameras handy, correct they are no substitute for hands on guidance yet a lot think its as good as, but they are helpfull in more ways than they are a hinderance.

    Pros: all goodfor the art as a whole as it helps keep it alive, nae it helps it thrive.

    Cons: Dont see any as even the bad stuff tells you your getting it right.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  8. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Interesting thread Pat.

    For me the video camera (my digital still camera can take up to 15 minutes video at a pretty decent quality) is a very useful tool. Not only do I use it when I train with my instructor (as a memory and technique aid), but it is also useful to set up on a tripod when I'm training with my guys (especially for drilling with a resisting opponent or sparring) to try to review why and when things worked or didn't work.

    More generally, Facebook, forums and sites like gumtree are great for ways to meet other practitioners/addicts, YouTube is awesome for how not to do things (and sometimes how to do things!) and for exposure to other arts. I'm currently training in freestyle wrestling (done so for about a year so am still learning a lot) and find it particularly useful to watch one or two matches per day to familiarise myself with set ups, positions and finishing. Thankfully most Olympic matches are on there, and my coach posts a couple every day via Facebook as 'homework'!

    My smart phone allows me to do all that on the move, as well as answer emails from existing and potential students at my convenience rather than having to dedicate a block of time every day for that task.

    This post was made via a BlackBerry PlayBook, over our wireless network, from the comfort of my sofa... Would I read and post on this forum as often if I had to use my home desktop? Probably not...
     
  9. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I feel that Tech is actually improving the arts as a whole for the simple reason of places such as Youtube. Someone posts footage of you on Youtube or you do it yourself so you are automatically open to critisism, some is just stupid from the keyboard warriors who would have trouble throwing a sock let alone a punch, but there are people who know their stuff out there too who will point out inaccuracies, weaknesses, errors in what you are seen to be doing.

    Your ego may get a little bruised at first but when your realistic about it you accept constructive critisism and you go away and improve on those inaccuracies, weaknesses and errors and this in its self improve you asan individual, then you put more footage up recieve more critiques and off you go again on a journey of improvement.

    So even when you are doing something wrong, people who dont know you and are looking from the outside in can actually improve you, something that would never have happened years ago as most groups where very insular and would not put themselves out there for fear of drawing attention to something they where doing wrong and in a way this only helped the arts stagnate, Tech has because of the nature of it encouraged it to improve.

    Best regards

    Pat

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    The other thing that venues like YouTube have done is provided people with an example by which to judge what's available to them. When I started FMA in 1989, I got very lucky that my first teachers were legit. I don't know that I'd have been savvy enough, back then, to have discerned between someone with a good, solid background and someone who'd picked up a few sinawali drills at a two-day seminar. There's certainly no shortage of such teachers, incorporating "stick work" into whatever their actual background is.

    Nowadays, I think it's a lot easier for a potential consumer to find and watch clearly authoritative examples of FMA doing their thing, therefore being better equipped to determine whether the guy they're contemplating training with is an actual eskrimador or just some guy flailing about with two sticks.
     
  11. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Yet I am still surprised at the amount of people I meet that happily tell me that they do Kali, Eskrima or Arnis in their Karate class and procced to show me what looks more like an irrate majorete spinning her magic wand. And when I ask where did their instructor learn it from there is this deathly silence, especially when I say, isnt what you are trying to do this????

    So I think people still need educating and a lot of people are picking up bits and peices from places like Youtube and adding it in to their curriculum because they think it will get more students, I am of the mind that if you have to teach something else to draw them in then you should stop teaching what you are qulified in and learn what you are using to draw them in properly as it is obvious that what you have aint that good.

    And that is one of the down sides to tech.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    It is indeed. That's the downside. It gives a source of material to people who have no business teaching. But then, tech also provides the upside, in that you can inquire about someone's lineage or training history and reach people for comment anywhere in the world really. So, if you're willing to do the leg work, the tech will help you.
     
  13. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I believe that technology improves human existence in every area. In this area, I think it's positive because it allows you to find the best arts, the best instructors, and the best practitioners in the world from anywhere. I wouldn't be half as good with a stick if it wasn't for the internet, because it helped me find what I really wanted to do.
     
  14. tonglonglengjai

    tonglonglengjai Valued Member

    Good discussion.

    I think that today we have so much knowledge at our fingertips and its great. Wish I had it 25 years ago! People can study martial arts much easier and have loads of choice.

    Problem is seperating the rubbish from the good and the good from the excellent....the excellent is few and far between IMHO

    Also knowledge is one thing, wisdom is another....I can watch as much youtube or dvd as I want but it does not prepare me for a MMA fight, Stick fight or street fight.

    Drilling the basics and being guided by a good instructor are the foundation and maybe the modern way has lost this point!!!!

    Paul
    Guba Doce Pares North East
    www.moifa.co.uk
     
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    So do you think that things such as Youtube has made instructors look more closely at their own skills and improve on them now they are more able to compare their systems against other systems of FMA that they would not have in previous years been so easy to look at?

    I know we all think that our system is the best otherwise we wouldnt do it, but I am always curious to see other systems and if they have a better way of doing something I am more than willing to adapt which I am sure the majority of other instructors are too even if they dont openly admit to it.

    Have you noticed any changes in the group you train with over the years and do you thik it is down to the access of more information on the web?
     
  16. tonglonglengjai

    tonglonglengjai Valued Member

    Yes I occassionaly look at youtube and its refreshing to get new ideas and ways of doing things. (and also not doing things)

    I have not noticed much change in my students because of youtube but probably becuase they spend more time training and living as compared to surfing I hope!

    Paul
     
  17. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    tech + fma = shock knife.

    [​IMG]

    hahahahaha!

    but i have to say it demystified fma rather quickly and made it stand on it's core strengths.
     
  18. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    Never sure about that sort of thing, not keen on the idea of electrocuting something you might need to check or clinch. Make your live hand a bit more live then you wanted.
     
  19. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    Used a shock knife quite a few times to do full-speed testing, and it's quite a good tool for making you aware of where you're being cut. The way some people talk about it though, you'd think it'd be more like a taser! It's really not. Also, it can be quite fragile - particularly if sweat gets onto it. Which is a shame, considering it costs so much!
     
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    And you shouldnt be clinching a guy with a knife, bad idea :eek: Was looking in to getting some but the price tag is a bit way off, plus I asked the UK supplier if they where legal in the UK and i'm still waiting for an answer???

    Because if they do come under the taser laws here in the UK then they are will be listed as class A1 weapons, e.g. in the same catagory as hand guns and carry a very hefty sentance.
     

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