Teacher punches student

She doesn't! I think the problem is that because teachers are adults looking after children, there is a tendancy to assume that if a teacher hits a pupil then the teacher must be in the wrong. Which is clearly a very suspect assumption to make.

My sister decided that teaching wasn't the job for her after all when one little charmer smuggled a 'Rambo' knife into class.

As a society we really should be giving the teachers a hell of a lot more support. If some parents won't bring their kids up properly then that doesn't mean that teachers should have to suffer the consequences.

 

I despise teenagers. I'm glad she did it. I wish he was more injured than he appeared, I would have liked to have seen him KO'd from that second punch but that's just me. Maybe clocked his head on a desk on the way down. She clearly warned him to back away and he deliberately got closer. If there was ever a clear-cut case of self defense, this is it. It's unfortunate she wasn't wearing a pair of brass knuckles.

They have the mentality that they're invincible and are entitled to do anything because they always think they're the first people in the world to ever do whatever it is they're doing. They think adults don't have a right to punish them because they're at the age where they think they deserve respect by default; the "I'm no longer a child so don't treat me like one" age.

ie: a young child is blasting music in the apartment upstairs from you. You knock on the door and ask him to please turn it down so you can sleep because you have work in the morning. He's afraid of getting in trouble so he does. He's young enough that he fears discipline but still does bad things because he doesn't empathize with the adult world yet.

Now substitute an adult. You ask the adult, he empathizes with you because he knows that he would hate not being able to sleep when he has work in the morning, so he turns it down.

Now a teenager, who has the disregard for authority and the lack of empathy that a young child does, but because he's "almost an adult" he feels like he's entitled to do whatever he wants because he still thinks adults get to do whatever they want. You ask him to turn it down, he tells you to go screw and turns it up. You call the police, he flips out because "he wasn't doing anything wrong omg the injustice of it", he then makes your life a living hell in any way possible for getting him in trouble.

With the pack mentality, the disregard for authority, the overwhelming need to prove themselves to their peers, and the lack of proper disciplinary retaliation, teachers are in one of the most precarious situations ever. How do you deal with a classroom full of 20 kids who think they're better than you, have no fear of being punished, and have no interest in what you're saying to them because they'd rather be at home? I say teachers should be allowed to carry stun guns.

 

I agree. These kids want to do nothing but sit in their desk and text each other on their android phones and update facebook all day.

I say make school optional, not mandatory. Let the kids that want to learn show up so the teachers can have smaller classrooms and devote their time and energy to the kids that will actually make something of themselves in the future.

 

I'd vote for you.
I think EVERY school should have a small team of discipline staff who's sole job is to manage and remove badly behaving pupils from lessons. They don't teach, set home work or in any way educate children. But what they do do is take the discipline responsibility away from teachers so they can get on with teaching the kids that are well behaved. You know...actually teaching people things.
A big part of bad behaviour in schools is acting up in front of their friends. Take that away, make 'em sit in big empty hall with all the other mugs.
A whole lesson can easily be wasted dealing with one idiot.

 

Schools could do with a 'cooler' to stick badly behaved teenagers in. Just four bare walls and a bench. Take away their phone, i-pod etc, then let them sit in there and be bored stiff until home time. That would teach them.

 

I know someone who went to a school where if you did ANYTHING wrong, even laugh at another student who got yelled at, the teacher would just say something like, "First prompt". If you got mad, "Second prompt". If you got a Third prompt, security staff would be called in and you'd get stuck in a padded room with one window on the door for a predetermined amount of time. It may or may not have dissuaded students from acting up, but it certainly cut out the melodrama associated with their outbursts. There were no arguments because there was never anything said back to the student. They just knew they were in trouble.

 

Such things do exist (in various forms of course), but all you're really doing is treating a symptom. If you aren't working to fix the underlying problems, then things wont improve.

If you want to read a couple of entertaining accounts of a teacher's life in a modern school, I'd recommend [ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Time-Youre-Wasting-ebook/dp/B004GEAM1S]It's your own time you're wasting[/ame] and [ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/EDGE-Britains-Toughest-Schools-ebook/dp/B004AE3O1O/]On the Edge[/ame]. I read them a few months ago when I was seriously considering changing career. Let's just say they've made me reconsider. They're both entertaining and eye opening to boot.

 

That's true, but I'm not sure that schools really can 'fix' kids who have been badly brought up, and shouldn't be even trying if it's going to have a negative impact on other children's education. Some kind of 'special' school should be catering for kids who simply don't know how to behave. Those who know how to but choose not to should simply be removed from where they can affect other children.

 

Hate to say this but these kids aren't just doing as teens any more. I'm seeing a lot more people my age in there early and late twenties bringing this type of behavior into the work place and in their every day lives.

I do agree though that the lack of fear these kids have has also led to their lack of respect.

 

They do have schools for kids like that on long island at least. But every year there less of them because school districts don't want to pay for them.

 

Lets also remember that you are not always dealing with really healthy kids, either.

Used to be that kids were just kids, Now we have ADD, ADHD, school phobics, asocial and anti-social, depressive, Bi-polar, cutters, druggies, pot-heads etc etc etc. Personally I don't think you can swing a dead cat without hitting some kid who has every excuse in the World for acting-out. If you come from a wealthy background its a world of Entitlements. If you come from an impoverished background its a world of shortages, anxiety and violence.

Why drag all of this up? Because that teacher sitting in a High School classroom is suppose to deal with all of this plus keep records, teach to the test and produce Rhodes scholars. Don't look to the Union for support because their spending all of their time defending people who have no right to be teaching. Don't look to the administration because their all looking to keep and advance their careers. If you're a teacher you better really LOVE teaching because that is about the only solace to be had. The rest is just an on-going and never-ending fight for survivial.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Exactly...Chronologically, they're children. Physically, they're like 95% adult, and if that near-adult smacks you in the face he's going to do a lot of damage.

I don't like your attitude towards teens in general though. I think you're a little out of touch with reality. Teenagers are people. Yes, SOME are A-holes, but guess what, go interact with some and you'll find that they're simply human beings who haven't quite finished maturing. You're honestly trying to say that anyone under 20 must be a disgusting ass-hole? Really?

 

Hmmm.

You see, hitting kids is still not a great option... However much us Martial artists love the idea that a good punching is the cure for antisocial bastards.

In specific cases I completely agree that self defence is necessary but things shouldn't get there. Any point where a schoolchild even considers physical intimidation on a authority figure is a sign of serious issues with discipline (not to get into the can of worms about whether the kid is just bringing in home issues)

My personal opinion is that discipline isn't about hitting someone, it's about the belief that you can be punished. In too many schools this illusion has been broken and kids act up because there isn't a system they fear to bring them back into line.

Anything from the usefulness of a police force to children's behaviour at home relies upon the fear inside your head that you can be found and punished. You self-discipline without continual external forcing.

School which lose that, schools where every kid will say "yeah? What's some teacher gonna do about it?" are the schools with problems.

Support these teachers so we can give the impression of resolute authority to the schoolchildren, but we should never pretend that a school where striking occurs doesn't deserve remedial attention.

 

Agreed Atre.

I'd like to add something about 'fear' though...Fear isn't enough. You should actually WANT to follow those rules, because you a) understand that they are there for moral reasons and b) you don't want to be a douchebag.

We'd also do well to look at why kids are resorting to that behaviour...where did they learn it from??

 

THIS

attacking a problem is moot if you do not address the root of it, and where behavioral problems are involved, one has to look at the environments where they are developed.

 

This is very true, thanks for pulling it up.

IMO the key part is the self discipline where people choose not be unpleasant/thieving/etc... Fear can do it even when everything else about a person is broken but it's not the best option .

To what extent? Environment is incredibly important, and even a cursory look at data shows behaviour links BUT I don't support the idea that environment inevitably leads to certain behaviour... If only because I find it untenable that a person can see their behavioural issues as inevitable given their background - which rather externalises the responsibility for fixing it as well.

Although a point about how to view the data on child behaviour rather than disputing the conclusions of the data (making it all a bit moot really ), but I feel it's important

 

it's not that environments inevitably lead to specific behaviours. it's that certain behaviours are known or strongly supposed to be caused or exacerbated primarily by certain environments. subtle difference .

 

To the extent of it being a viscious, extensive, generational problem. The things that get done to those kids turn them into the types of people that can survive their environment. And when generational poverty is in play, raising kids that way is seen as survival of the fittest. It's ugly but it is what it is.

And as far as kids being out of control and teachers being helpless goes, when I went to school there was active paddling in place. There were coaches who'd break a 2x4 across the wall then go in their office and pick up their huge paddle as if saying "Comprende?" Very well behaved classrooms for the most part.

 

My wife is a educator-school treacher also.

This is a case of excessive force.

A teacher is only allowed to use contact if actual harming contact was made.

Being back into a wall, was not the cause for punching.

HOWEVER, if the student already has a background of physical aggression, then it could be dismissed