I'm really interested in Taoism & try to adopt 'wu wei' into my life as much as possible. However in my reading I've come across references to many different kinds of Taoism i.e. Fire & Water, Neo-Taoism, Immortality cult etc. Is anyone here a practicing taoist? If so can you shed some light on what appears to be a very diverse and confusing philosophy. Cheers bob
There are lots of different styles of Taoist practice. Some are primarily philosophical, while others are rooted in the physical practice. I would encourage you to do two things-- find a teacher that isn't on an ego trip and study with him/her, and read some books: "The Tao Te Ching" by Lao tsu; "Cultivating stillness" by Eva Wong, "Relaxing Into Your Being," and "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by B.K. Frantzis, and finally, "The Root of Chinese Qigong" by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming After that, you'll probably have enough of a hold on Taoism to decide how you want to incorporate it into your daily practice. Good luck, and have fun!
Thanks for the input hwardo, I have read most of the above. are you yourself practicing? whats your interpretation. Cheers Bob
I practice a taoist qigong based on the five elements daily, and I doing a breathing based water-style meditation. For me personally, I have found that taoism fits best fits into my life as a physical practice, rather than a philosophical one, but it has always helped me to understand what I am doing. I tend to shy away from the fire based stuff, because it doesn't really suit my personality. I think that achieving stillness can be a lifelong pursuit, despite the fact that it is merely step one for the taoists, and that many paths lead to that alone. Once there, then you begin to work at a higher level (or so I'm told) and the manner in which you approach it will become clear to you through the process of attaining stillness in the first place. I guess my interpretation of taoism is that it is all about the practice. My life and health never really changed when I just thought about it-- it was the work at the physical and energetic level that really made a huge difference. How's about you? What is your path looking like? : )
Hi Bob, Taoism is a philosophy who’s principles are based on working with nature, achieving great things thru natural action. Not by harnessing, damaging nature.Not wasting energy thru pointless activity The most important focus in Taoism is achieving Immortality , but many modern people think only longevity is possible Patriachs in Taoism are the Yellow Emperor ( 4-5000 BC ?) and Lao Tzu ( Lao Tzi) 550BC and Lu Dong Bin. Try searching for these in Google. The latter wrote the Tao Te Ching, the reference guide for Taoism. Taoism was originally a philosophy , but later ignorant followers turned it into a religion when they started worshipping the Immortals etc, like Lu Dong Bin Neo Taoism arose when later day philosophers ( 13th century BC ?) tired to fuse Zen Buddhism and Confucianism . I personally do not subscribe to Neo Taoism, I prefer the original purer form. For more info, please read my other thread….ignore the stooooopid pointless argument that ensued. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13172 Hope this helps
Corrections : Lao Tze wrote the Tao TeChing. Neo Taoist are later day philosophers ( 13th century AD?)
Taoism like most religions, philosophies can be interpreted in may ways. The taoist canons such as the Tao Te ching is so essoteric in its style it can be interpreted many ways. Also it was actually written by several people as opposed to the mythical Lao Tzu. Most people who claim to know Taoism are new age people who have no deep knowledge. MF
Soggycat: 1. Our argument wasn't stupid, just pointless. There is a big difference between both terms. 2. Daoists are in pursue of spiritual immortality, which is different than physical as some people may think. Madfrank: Lao-Tsu achieved Buddhahood. Daoism and Buddhism and all great religions have something in common. I hope I don't have to tell you. Humans always liked to argue and different colours to the common one: white.
Hwardo: The book of Chang Tzu really struck a chord with me as his interpretation of the tao & his total irreverence & ability to walk through life without taking anything seriously fit in well with my own 'path'. The I-Ching & The Tao Te Ching have also played a significant part in my life over the past couple of years, influencing my decisions & helping me (I hope!) go with the flow. I too practice water-based meditation (as found in 'relaxing into your bieng') however I'm dubious about doing any qigong, as I only have books to work from. Soggycat: I must admit it is something of a pleasure to be speaking to you at last, I've been reading your posts for some time & have found them both fascinating & entertaining(your arguements with Syd especially) good to see clearly intelligent & knowledgable people engaged in a bit of mental 'fencing'. I believe you can learn all manner of things simply by observing such exchanges and would like to think I have! I know very little regarding Neo-Taoism and fire methodolgy but what I have learned would suggest that it is closely linked to the pursuit of physical immortality (which I believe in firmly). This is of great interest to me and I would be grateful if you(or anyone else for that matter ) would share any knowledge you have on the subject. Cheers Bob
? Well you stated it as a fact that he wrote it there is no proof for that theory. There actually is proof for my theory though I studied this at University. Never assume. MF
BobO1-- If you are interested in learning about fire methods of Taoism in an intellectual way, I would check out Mantak Chia's books. I would definitely NOT practice the exercises in them without a teacher, though.
Personally physical immortality is not possible at this stage of technology, simply because nothing is eternal and forcing yourself into physical immortality is going against Dao and Buddha. However, reaching a more than average lifespan is possible but you must: 1. Definitively don't live in a populated area, especially cities 2. Live in an area where cosmic and natural qi is very abundant. Ideally it would be in high altitude settings, i.e. Himalayas, Alps, Andes, and the like. 3. Look after your diet 4. Use herbal medicine to strenghten your system 5. Drink water that flows from the mountains since it is rich in Ca, or if not possible filter and ionize it. 6. Regulate your semen emissions if you're a male. 7. Practice Qigong or any of the internal martial arts. 8. Meditate every day, twice a day preferably 9. Sometimes engaging in anaerobic and aerobic kind of activities is good too. Listen to your body here and don't abuse this kind of training. Moderation is the key. 10. Adopt a happy attitude toward life and be good and respectful toward others. Remember Buddha's 'Middle Path'. I give you these links, which further link to the legend of Shambala. Have fun. I hope you find the place and the mystical Bodhisattvas if one day you decide to gor for that quest :Angel: O.K. after all the talk here are the links: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/swami.html http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/lahiri.html#N2 http://www.wie.org/j21/babaji.asp
SC Yes there is a common theory that the Dao De Jing was compiled or written by several different authors rather then just Lao Zi.There is even some conjecture as to whether Lao Zi(the name is one clue) was even one man. The past is ofcause open to the interpretation of the present.
? Madfrank: Lao-Tsu achieved Buddhahood. Daoism and Buddhism and all great religions have something in common. I hope I don't have to tell you. Humans always liked to argue and different colours to the common one: white.[/QUOTE] Wrong Taoism is very different from Buddhism? Kepp studying MF
Why the hell do the taoists always end up fighting on this forum?! There is something distinctly odd about that... maybe we're all a little too yang. Whatever happened to the wise man saying little?
It's like in the old story of the blind guys all grabbing an elephant on a different part and then trying to describe to each other what an elephant really is based on the one part they have in their hands. One guy has an ear, one guy has the tail, one guy has the torso, one guy has a leg, another guy has a tusk. They all have a real part of the elephant, but they also all have completely different descriptions and end up getting mad and yelling at each other about what an elephant is really like. It isn't because they are stupid or wrong, it is because they can't see the rest of the elephant. Having a physical body in this world is like that, it makes us all blind in a very real sense. It is like we are "walled off" from each other by these bags of meat that we walk around in all day. So, the great religious traditions all say that if you try to give the Tao or God a "name" (to try and definitively describe it) you are always going to be wrong somehow. It isn't possible to do it in the physical world, we are too limited in our perspectives. It is possible, however, to get to see more than one part of the Tao/elephant, but as soon as you start to describe what you see to another, it goes wrong again, you lose the vision. "Those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know." What Taoism (and Ch'an Buddhism, IME) is really good at is setting you up so that it is possible for you to eventually see more than one part of the elephant at a time, but you've got to recognise that you are truly "blind," learn to really ignore the "noise" coming from the other blind people around you and work your tail off on the cultivation of the ability to perceive from another perpective beyond the one you already know. Again IME, really good martial art training is probably one of the quickest ways to "self-cultivate" in that it has so many built in tests to see if you are doing it correctly. Do you get knocked down or does he get knocked down? End of argument. It is easier to ignore another blind person if you know that they can't knock you down (physically or psychically) at a certain point, too. Other systems (prayer, fasting, chanting, scripture) can be very subjective if you practise them in a vacuum, which is to say if you can't afford to run away and live alone on a mountain or a huge monastery where the monks run your life everyday. Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, you name it, they all have dozens, if not hundreds, of sects just because of "blindness" regarding their other parts. If you dig into the roots of the traditions you'll see that most of the founders of different religions all warned against this happening. But, people being who they are, everyone wants their part of the elephant to be the best one and don't give a monkey's (or an elephant's) butt about the other parts (if they even admit that other parts exist) and spend all day yelling about their own. :Angel: O Mi T'o Fo! -HKP
That the author of the Tao Te Ching is not Lao Tzu , but a collection of writers is conjecture, not proven theory. Doesn't matter if you learnt it in University. Who ever said Universities were the guardians of truth? That Lao tzu achieved "Buddhahood' is utter pseudo intellectual fertiliser. Lao Tzu came before Buddha. Taoism predtaes Buddhism by at least 1500 years. Lao Tzu achieved immortality ( according to the story ) Buddha died from eating poisoned food: http://www.lankalibrary.com/Bud/buddha_death.htm
Some Corrections: 1.Taoism is originally a Philosophy , not a religion 2. It's current relevance is due to its philosophical teachings 3.Tao Te Ching is part of the Taoist Canon, the Taoist Canon is NOT the Tao Te Ching. The Taoist cannon consist of hundreds of other Taoist works spread over a 2000year period. 4.Lao Tzu is a real NOTa mythical person. He is credited with the authorship of the Tao Te Ching. Although some opinions suggest it is a collection of writers. But the preponderance of proof lies with Lao Tzu being the author (based on style analysis) 5. Lao Tzu is NOT a name, it is a title, like " Professor, Doctor, Your Honour"..it literally translates to " Old Teacher " Lao = Old , Tzu = Teacher
