[Tang Soo Do] what is tang soo do

Read it, lived it, the debates won't be explained away.

The book provides insights, but there are still too many questions.

 

What it heck are you saying here? Lived it? You are not even 28. How long have you been studying Martial arts? I have been studying them for 26 years, almost as long as you have been alive, and I have not met anyone who "lived" it, as "it" happened 100 years ago in Okinawa. Or maybe "it" happened 60 years ago, in Korea. Wherever "it" happened, I am pretty sure you were not there.

By the way, thanks for the detailed explaination of your opinion on the book. If you want to discuss something from the book, then do so, don't just dismiss it on principle.

 

I think he's just referring to living the culture... seeing as how the occupation was from 1909 to 1945, and he wasn't born till 1979

 

Asian culture has changed a great deal in the past 50 years. Just take Japan for example, everyone used to try to be just like everyone else, not standing out at all, and now they embrace American culture and attitudes everywhere. I do not believe anyone younger than 55 would have been able to have seen the culture as it was.

 

Like I said. The occupation was from 1909 to 1945. He wasn't born till 79. There's no way he could experience the occupation culture. He probably meant just Korean culture, since I think I read somewhere that he's gone and lived in Korea for a little while.

If not I'm sure he will be along presently to elucidate.

And yes, you are right, the culture in Korea has changed alot. If you see the generations after the occupation generation of Koreans, they are pretty different, in thinking, upbringing, and just general taste.

 

You may have not intended it that way, but your original post was a bit condescending.

I see. So I'm ignorant and need to do some research before I can discuss this...

Right...

You don't know me.

Thank you for that little slap in the face.

Their culture is different?

Shocker.

They view many things in ways that I don't understand yet?

내가 누군지나 알아?

Nope.

Maybe I'm Korean. Then you're the one dealing with my culture, and you don't understand.

Maybe, I just don't like being talked down to.

And don't pull the age thing on me. I could give a damn if you're twice my age.

I'd love to have this discussion, based on something other than ad hominum attacks.

 

MadMonk, I'm sorry if you took my post as condescending, but I was actually trying to share a book that I had just read, and learned a great deal. I didn't say I knew you, and from your stance of "I'm always right, your always ignorant" on everything discussed on these forums, I doubt I would like to.

So, sorry if my post came of condescending, I was just being enthusiastic.

Now, back to your response to my post. You said you read it. Did you? If you had, maybe you could explain why "the debates won't be explained away". You said you lived it. Did you? If you had, you might have already explained it from your point of view, but instead you tried to dismiss it.

Its obvious you don't like being talked down to, because that is how you talk to everyone, and the only reason I responded that way was because of your dismissal of the issue. I wasn't "pulling the age thing on you". Your age was only addressed as an issue to your possible relevence to the particular time frame in which the specific style of martial arts was developed in, and the cultures that shaped it. The only thing I "pulled" on you might have been the experience angle, in which I was subtly trying to hint at the fact I have met many people with your holier-than-thou attitude, who when confronted with an argument that they might not be able to win, start using vague terms, hoping the opposing opinion might just assume you have all the answers, but for some reason aren't sharing them.

Your posts didn't actually move the forum's topic along at all, they are just your emotional responses to a perceived slight. I apologize again for the misunderstanding.

 

It's good. I'd also recommend checking out Harry Cook's "Shotokan Karate: A Precise History".

My heart bleeds.

And if telling someone who says that Tang Soo Do is 60% Soobak, or the Taekwondo was practiced by the Hwarang that they are wrong is know-it-all, I'm fine with that. The mythologies, lies, and bs have been propogated far too long simply because the people have known the truth have not been vocal.

I will continue to be blunt and to the point as far as this is concerned.

I will continue to ask the hard questions. If someone tells me that Naebojin is a 950 year old form from Shaolin temple, I'm going to demand evidence. .

I'm not going to be overly-polite or nice, as there is no need. I'll just say one thing. "Prove it."

Kang Uk Lee is wrong. I just called out one of the most noted Dangsoodo masters on Earth.

Because unless he's uncovered evidence that no one else has, he's wrong.

Some may say that makes me disrespectful, or know-it-all. I frankly don't care.

Understandable. No need for an apology.

Because there's always going to be someone proclaiming the myth over the reality. :bang: At times it feels like that icon, dealing with the same thing over and over. Surely you're familiar with the feeling, especially with your years of experience. It won't likely go away as long as the South Korean government continues to propogate it.

Sarcasm. That's all.

I'm also capable of having a knowledgable discussion, which I think I've shown on just as many points as I have been blunt and dismissive.

I wasn't aware we were having an argument. Given the subject matter, I would think you and I would be in agreement rather than disagreement.

They were also sarcastic. No apology necessary, as there is nothing to apologize for.

 

You are right, I do agree with almost everything you say. You do have alot of knowledge, and are an asset to the art and to these forums. I agree with 100% that the history of TSD, and Karate in general, has been re-spouting the same history, when we as westerners hear it and say "bullcrap". The only place I have even been able to find a credible history of our art is in just a few books, Shotokan's Secret being one of them.

Thank you for explaining your "voice", which I did indeed take incorrectly.

I could not find any reference to the book you suggested, "Shotokan Karate, a Precise History". I did find a book by Harry Cook entitled "Karate", but it doesnt look like a history book at all, instead more of an informational book. Do you have the ISBN for the book you mention, I would really like to check it out. Thanks!

 

"Credible history" is almost a non sequitor... everyone's history will always have some bias in it (I figured that one out real well in my 2 yr stint with Wing CHun... never have I seen more contradicting histories). Like the TKD history of TSD that I posted in this subforum. It more or less says the same thing as DJN Hwang Kee's History of the Moo Duk Kwan, but from two opposite perspectives.

 

You're making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Does this mean you'll be joining the fan club?

It is upsetting that a legitimate history of the Korean Karate arts has not been undertaken. Don't worry. I'm working on it.

No worries. You are likely a bigger man than I am.

Click Here

Dragon-Tsunami has some great products. However, one of the editors is rabidly anti-Korean. Harry Cook, on the other hand, is an amazing resource, and a real gentlemen. I've enjoyed conversing with him in the past.