[Tang Soo Do] Tang Soo Do Check-in

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Jang Bong, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Can't help you gakami, but when I read this I thought it was a rhetorical question. Maybe one of the senior dans?

    I don't mind starting this - thanks for the idea. ;) And it's not 'stealing', I just like adapting best practice :D :D :D
  2. gakami

    gakami Valued Member

    Hi Jang Bong, it wasn't a rhetorical question at all. Was Hwang Kee still the grandmaster? I'm assuming he's passed on by now, was he the head up until his passing?
  3. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Members of the MAP Tang Soo Do community - in no ranked order except their arrival on this thread. All start dates assume ISH on the end (i.e. 2002ish)

    Jang Bong - Newcastle/Gateshead - England - started 2002 - last ranking 4th Gup

    monk-ki - Reno, NV - USA - started 1981 - 3rd dan black belt

    ahkyte - Benfleet - England - - green tag

    Homer J Simpson - London - England - started 2003

    Yossarian75 - Moray - Scotland - started 1999

    Mu Ryuk - Monterey, CA - USA - 8+ years - 7th gup, but check that experience :)

    Tang Sou Tim - England

    ATF - Malden, MA - USA - started 2000 - 1st gup

    gakami - - before 1985 - minimum 1st dan black belt

    FlatFoot - Colorado - USA - started 2001 - 1st dan black belt

    Talk about arriving bearing gifts - many thanks to FlatFoot for the link to the videos - they will be very helpful as I advance. :)

    gakami - the guys here may have your answer, but why not post it as a new thread? There are a lot of MAP members with a wide breadth of experience who may not sign up on this thread but have been involved with TSD and know the history. Just a thought. :)

    There we have it - a small but strong core following a common art. It's nice to know you all, and I'm sure we will get to share the successes and avoid the pitfalls of this journey we are on.

    TANG SOO!! *bow*
  4. monk-ki

    monk-ki Monkey..Monk-ki...Get it?

    Grandmaster Hwang Kee was the head of his Tang Soo Do group, up until the point when he died, which was in 2002. I have no idea what is going on with his group now, have not been following.

    Of topic, sorry I was gone for a while, I moved out and it took me 3 weeks to get my internet going. I'm back now!

    Tang Soo!!
  5. Topher

    Topher allo!

    How big is the Chinese [internal] influence from the art in your school?

    Kinda funny but my instructor had to be reminded not too use too much external power on one of the later internal forms.
  6. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Our teacher sticks to the Korean arts, except for the fact he teaches Tai Chi. I keep getting wrong for using force (escaping from grabs, etc) when I should stay relaxed and let my body movement do the work.

    The 'movement of force' is mentioned in a number of elements, and it is amazing how effortlessly effective things become when they are done correctly. :)

    Is this what you were thinking about?
  7. Yossarian75

    Yossarian75 New Member

    Ill have a go, im asuming you are still part of the MDK.

    Grand Master Hwang Kee, made a lot of changes to MDK Tang Soo Do during the nineties as you noticed. The name was changed to Soo Bahk Do, more Chinese influenced forms(Chil Sung,Yuk Ro,Hwa Sun) were introduced. This didnt sit well with some of the MDK senior masters and they left to form thier own orgs which still teach the old curriculum(with the Japanese forms etc). So now there are two distinct styles of TSD.

    There have been some minor curriculum changes in my org over the years which have annoyed some people, so I can see how changing such large parts would cause poeple to leave. I beleive there is a lot of bad blood between the MDK and splinter orgs, so this can be a touchy subject for many. My own org(World Tang Soo Do Ass) broke away from the MDK in the early eighties for political reasons.

    Grand Master HC Hwang(Hwang Kee's son) is the current head of the MDK. Personally I like what I have seen of the new forms, I have learned the first two Chil Sung Hyung and think they are great.

    What forms do you practice?

    For a better explanation you could ask the masters who post on the following boards, I have found them to be a great source of TSD info, they really know thier stuff.



    Tang Soo
  8. FlatFoot

    FlatFoot New Member

    There is a bit of Chinese influence in our instruction. GM Hwang Kee sent our GM to China to study for a few years, hence our Chinese influence. Our school also teaches So Rim Kung Fu as a result of this.
  9. Topher

    Topher allo!

    Kinda of, although the Chinese martial arts were a major influence in the development Tang Soo Do. GM Hwang Kee learnt Chinese systems while on exile in China, hence the big influence. Its also why the art is called 'Tang', out of respect to the Chinese arts. [I think the reason he changed it's name to Soo Bahk So was because it sounded too Chinese]

    I'm not sure though if some schools have lowered the importance of the Chinese influence in the art. Our school and i assume the rest of the MDK havent.
  10. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member

    Yes, great idea!! I have to admit I was a bit disappointed to see no TSD section while there was a TKD section. Tang Soo Do tends to be the quiet uncle to Tae Kwon Do, and that is just fine by me.

    I wonder how many peeps we need to get to have them start a Tang Soo Do section? hint, hint. ;)

    I look forward to some great discussions... :)
  11. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member

    Hey ATF - I didn't see your post. I trained under GM Byrne for 23 years!! Truly a great organization and very traditional. You have some great black belts and masters at your disposal. Make sure to take full advantage of that. GM Byrne will make sure to introduce you to some of the best area martial artists too.
  12. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member

    OK I will take a crack at it. hehe

    What happened? Well, in my feeling ego happened. Money happened. Tang Soo Do held pure and strong for quite some time. Eventually like most things people saw that there was money to be made in having your own organization, or system. Also, people started thinking they had a "better way". So this one sparated from that one and started their own organization. Over the past 5-10 yrs we also had an outbreak of american masters "bucking" against the Korean masters. Many American masters feel/felt they weren't getting their due. I suppose you could group this in with ego... Understand that there is no judgement from me on this assessment because I am not in either party's shoes. However, from what I have seen at least the TSD masters have stuck to on Forms system and movements system (Chil Sung forms were added). One thing I would correct though - I'm not sure I would describe them as opposing organizations.

    In the end it really doesn't matter too much for the individual student.

    Just noticed this question...

    Hwang Kee is still recognized as the founder of Moo Duk Kwan by all (as far as I know). At some point there was a controversy regarding the usage of teh names Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do. I won't get intot eh specifics, but just chalk it up to money and business. Because of that there were other "Grandmasters". My personal understanding was that there is only one 9th dan grandmaster of Tang Soo Do and that was Hwang Kee - up to his passing (at which time he became a 10th dan). Hwang Kee's son H.C. Hwang is now the Kwang Jang Nim of the organization.

    Once again it is politics that has brought about all of this noise, and I would recommend to anyone that it should be overlooked. Just stick with your instructor and learn the art, not the noise.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2004
  13. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member

    The Chinese/Japanese connection. Someone asked about Chinese influences in Tang Soo Do.

    You will see obvious influences right away in the name. Tang refers to the Tang dynasty. The real Chinese influences are subtle until you get to a dan level. The Hyung change from the strong Japanese type to a more gentle Chinese. Other than the naihanchi forms, the dan forms tend to be a bit softer and more internal. Wong Shu, Jion, etc are a very internal forms. The kicks are influenced more by the Chinese styles too. they are above the waste and more acrobatic than those you would see in a Japanese style.
  14. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    That is the way I'm going - good advice as far as I can see :)

    Welcome aboard, AC - your first in line for the next revised TSD list.
  15. tswolfman

    tswolfman New Member


    hello all :)
  16. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Hi there - I thought you'd show up here eventually :)

    With your wide background including Tang Soo Do, you are a useful addition to this end of the forum.

    Tang Soo!!
  17. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member

    No new list yet - LOL.

    Hey TSWolfman! More TSD peeps!

    Oh for the list...start date - Started summer 1977 in North Reading Mass, USA, 4th Dan
  18. tang_sou_dao

    tang_sou_dao YoU cAnT sEe Me!

    hey i used to do tang sou dao. stopped because i couldnt afford the classes. Used to study under grandmaster loke tho :)
  19. hoppy

    hoppy New Member

    Beginner !!

    Hi All.

    I'd like to start practicing Tang Soo Do. Just wondered if anyone could recommend a good school to go with, in the South East Essex area.

    I have done Shotokan Karate in my younger days. Have recently tried Praying Mantis but couldn't quite get into it as the school seemed a little disorganised which kinda put me off.

    Thanks to any replies.
  20. monk-ki

    monk-ki Monkey..Monk-ki...Get it?

    Awesome! More people! Spread the word. :D

    Oh, does anyone know a good book with bunkai (application) for the Kong Sang Koon form? My partner and I are focusing on this form for a while, and we just want other opinions on applications. I know that most of TSD forms come from japanese (or okinawin) karate, so even if the book is on Japanese Karate, that will be fine. Tang Soo!
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2004

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