Koga Ryu may not necessarily be a lost art. I believe that Tanemura Sensie claims to be a Koga Ryu master and claims to teach Koga Ryu. I have read this in Ninpo Secrets and other sources. Could this be true?
i think before you bring a senior respected teacher into disrespute, you should think about the evidence you need to supply, i want to know the source, page number etc, if its in a book then its not hard to give, either that or spooky closes another trolling thread.
well, in this case, Yamabushi One is not trolling. I have a photocopy of the Genbukan Ninpo Bugei (Fundamental Taijutsu Vol. 1) dated 1987 open by the side of my computer as I'm typing this. Pages 17-19 give a history of the Koga Ryu. The last line of that section reads... The paragraphs preceding that final line describe Tanemura's family connections to decendants of the Koga line. Specifically; (1) in the paragraphs preceding the above quote describes the connections between the Sasaki family and the Koga Ninja/Samurai groups, dating this connection as far back as 1185. I don't know enough about the history of Japan to make any judgement on these pages and I haven't got time this morning to type out two and a bit sides of A4, which provides alot of detail in support of the claim that Tanemura is connected through family to the Koga line.
Nice quotes Xen. It'll be interesting to see what Yamabushi quotes from Ninpo secrets and his other sources.
well apologies to him then!! but i dont think Tanemura is reffering to the koga ryu found in dojo's today!!!
I've just checked my copy of "Ninpo Secrets". On page 71, a chapter starts called "History of Koga Ryu Ninpo". This includes the same information that Xen provided in his references. Plus, the final line of that chapter (page 73) is:- Interestingly, in this chapter on Koga Ryu history, "Kukishin Ryu Ninpo" is mentioned. Plus, on a related note, in his book "Samurai Fighting Arts", Fumon Tanaka also lists Koga Ryu Ninjutsu in the list of his titles and licences (inside rear cover).
i hadn't read that section of the source I posted before yesterday (someone leant me the document and I'd just read the philosophy and technique sections, as i've said before, i'm not big on history), but i remembered the section on Koga which I'd skipped and thought i'd skim it to see if it backed-up what Yamabushi One was suggesting. looking over it again, there is another line that is interesting, where Tanemura talks about his families emblem... Now, a link to Don Roley's article about the Koga Ryu has been one of our stickies for some time and i've just skimmed it again. I'm very curious why he hasn't mentioned this claim of family connection between Genbukan and Koga. Until MWDAndy posted last night that the same material is available in both the training manual I've been leant (now 19 years old) and a book published in the public domain, (which I haven't read) I thought it could be that maybe he hadn't seen the Genbukan training manual. Now I am just very curious why this hasn't come up for discussion before. Does anyone know of it being considered on any of the other boards? Or have any more light to shed on the intrigue?
I also have both books from when I was in the Genbukan, the ninpo training manual and ninpo secrets, and remember reading these passages. I thought that the quotes were mainly about being from a Koga family, his family past and his family relations. In my opinion, "I could be wrong here" , I think that he can trace his family lineage back to the koga warriors and possibly ninja but he wasn't like Takamatsu who had "ninjutsu" martial schools taught and passed down to him (notice- I say Ninjutsu schools, as Tanemura was taught many martial arts when he was young and I believe had some martial traditions ryu-ha passed down to him), it was more like he found ninjutsu through Hatsumi and Takamatsu and the other teachers who had been taught by Takamatsu (and maybe others) and makes a statement like, "My past family studied Iga and Koga ninjutsu and so do I. Funny how life brings you full circle from the past to the present" Does Tanemura know any real Koga ninjutsu :yeleyes: I dont know??? Can any high level current Genbukan practioners confirm or deny this..
So far, I haven't seen anything where Tanemura claims to be a master, just that he teaches it. Big difference. One can teach something, without being a master of it. Profiency would be nice, but how many of us teach in the Bujinkan? And I'd wager the majority of us were far from mastering what we teach.
fair point brad; but that said, i was under the impression that the official line was that there is no longer any known surviving connection between present day practioners and Koga. it would seem there is and i'm wondering if some note about this should be made somewhere in the stickies? --- off-topic btw, did you get my delayed reply to the email you sent the other week?
brad; gmail's fine, i was off-line completely while i was thinking out the phd problem, which is why it took so long to get back to you. ------ on-topic (ish). LOL. i like you already if we didn't get contrarversial questions, this place would lose its charm and the Walsall lot would have nothing to do but chat about what-ever-it-is they spend all their time joking about. (i'm getting convinced its some weird fetish club under the loose guise of a dojo )
i did, about five mins before making the post * xen shivers as he remembers that night in dublin, wondering what other pictures greg might have taken in the dead of the night * :cry:
