Taijiquan Full Contact Competition

Eventually I ought to really to 'test' what I'm trying to develop but at the moment, for me, sparring and full-contact would be counter-productive to what I'm trying to achieve. I just want to focus on push-hands, sung/relaxation, form, sensitivity/listening and learning how to move properly. I want to get to the stage where my subconscious mind is happy to relax and step in rather than tense up and go 'oh ****'.

 

If what you want to 'achieve' is the maintenance of a comfortable illusion, then yes, your right.

 

Liokault, will you be able to rely on strength, speed, stamina, full contact sparring etc when you are in your 50s, 60s, 70s? This is the difference between what you do and what the rest of us are after. We want to enjoy our golden years with as much mobility and freedom from aches and pains as possible and be able to defend ourselves using a different method.

 

All you are doing is sacrificing having an effective art NOW, for the vain hope that you will have one in 40 years time.....to me that's just mad.

Well, I have had 20+ full contact fights now. In all the injures that I have gained both in the fights and in the training for fights mounts up to a cut head (three stitches) and a very bad nose bleed.

I have been training for over half of my life, and I have no persistent 'hurts' and I have an art that I can enjoy NOW.

 

All you are doing is sacrificing having an MORE effective art LATER, for the vain hope that you will have one now....to me that's just DIFFERENT.

I know I can keep on doing what I'm doing until I drop dead and have fun in the process.

 

Except that Liokault does have an effective art now (well, for a short, bald guy anyway). It's not a vain hope. You're kidding yourself that you will eventually have an effective MA through decades of soft, relaxing compliant training.

 

With out trying to get back into a big arguement with Liokault he might well have an effective art and I do agree that there needs to be some hard training. But for Cullion to think that you cannot learn through soft compliant training is way off the mark. I do believe there will many Tai Chi teachers who are quite capable of looking after themselves and have spent their lives training that way ( granted there are also many crap ones out there). But certainly in Malaysia Tai Chi has always been a fighting art and still is and many teachers still teach through being relaxed.

 

In the hope of not seeming confrontational, what are we basing that on?


Seen them 'fight'? Or just feel that they could?

 

Hmmm... funny that... because in earlier threads you have talked about having a long-term knee injury and a neck problem.
All those blows to the head must be making you forgetful...

 

Yup, both were nothing to do with me training or fighting full contact.

The knee was me being nice to someone that I had thrown, I left my leg out as I tried to let him down nicely and damaged my ACL quite badly, just part of a 'normal' class. Now after three years, its not a problem in anyway (apart from having to look away from anything coming close to a leg lock).

The neck thing is a bit different, I think it may just be a weakness, in that my neck does tend to get injured my very minor levels of force, but nothing historically started it off. Maybe I hurt it as a kid and just don't remember.

So generally my history of full contact has been quite safe and my history of training in general has left me with fewer injures than if I had spent a similar amount of time playing rugby,football or doing judo.

 

I think it comes down to this. If it was possible to develop a high level of proficiency in fighting without doing anything that matched the competitive aggression or physical intensity of a fight, I'd love to see it. It would be much preferable to me to learn that way than having to huff and puff my way through conditioning exercises, padwork, wrestling and sparring.

The problem is whenever I hear of people who claim to be able to do that, when asked to demonstrate it by fighting full contact they either just refuse, leaving us without any evidence for what seems like an extraordinary claim, or it quickly becomes apparent they just don't know what they are doing (see the clip of the two 'masters' in Macau).

 

Liokault in the same manner might I point you to posts made by another member Khatami and check his post history (dont worry he has made very few)and he gives a brief but good explaination as to teachers and people in particular in Malaysia who train in the traditional way. I have also trained with a couple of his teachers that have been over here and they were very relaxed and very very good (no I do not have a video just a personal experience). My best regards.
Cullion maybe you should go and play with one of Pikul teachers I believe he trains with John Higginson who will answer many of your questions but again this can only be found out by meeting and training with him. No amount of video or talk on here can do what a few practical lessons will show you. I have trained with him on more than a few occasions and he is one of the nicest yet best pushing hands people I have met. He is very soft and relaxed yet brilliant. If you get the chance to play with him Im sure he would leave you in no doubt as to how good Tai Chi is.

 

Want to cut and paste some, as i'm missing your point.

His posts just point people towards a site about a guy doing silat(if i remember right) and thai boxing.....

 

I'm lucky to already train with people who leave me in no doubt how good Tai Chi can be, I just don't think the kind of training you're describing is likely prepare people very well for the physical intensity and unpredictability of a real brawl.

Video of hard sparring is a decent way of showing effectiveness. I wouldn't expect I could tell whether 'jin' was being used or not, but I would be able to see 'intensity' and 'timing' and 'toughness'. When I watch a video of Mohammed Ali fight, or Cung Le, or Royce Gracie or a real fighter like that, I can see who's winning. I can see how solidly the blows land. I can see the opponent tap to indicate he's scared he'll have a joint dislocated if he doesn't. I can see a fight in progress. I can see who's defending themselves well and who's getting the upper hand.

 

In that case Cullion we will have to agree to disagree. I notice you have had enough experience to find what has worked for you as I have. The training I have done has kept me out of trouble so I will go with that.
PS I have to say Cung Le is pretty good