Taijiquan Full Contact Competition

? so your point was?

They are good at not knocking each other out or they are good at co-operating swith each other? Its nice to be nice

Just remind me how thats going to help in the str33t though.

 

Hey, Cullion, did you ask TJB for video? I dont see where you do anywhere on this thread.

And yet you constantly critasize people on the basis of video evidance.

There are lots of rules. This is why people shout a bit after you spill your their pint, then punch you in the face, instead of just following you home and burning your house while you sleep.

The key is trying to understand the rules and rituals around fights and use them to your advantage. Geoff Thompson does some very good seminars on this.

You mean by a black guy right? You are trying to say that the black guy mugged the old man? Isnt that a bit raceist?

 

Point taken Cullion though to be honest video clips dont do it for me and I would suggest a good club that trains as such. To be honest my Tai Chi club is very small and the guys who do the martial side of it are very green and not up to that good a standard. I am quite lucky and having been in the game a while can play with friends who like to play with out padding from various other arts.
Sorry Liokault dont do vids but you can believe what you want thats entirely up to you but I also play outside of Tai Chi in particular with a nice Go Ju Ryu guy who is very traditional and does nothing softly
What I do works for me it might not for you but I am only worried about me

 

'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. I found this claim extraordinary, so I wanted to see it for myself.

You think that people who are fighting aren't using Tai Chi, so we're curious what you think real Tai Chi 'fighting' looks like. If you admit to not doing it, or not being great at it, why do you always have a critique ready on what you theorise it should look like ?

Why do you think that ? what do you think it would make you worse at ?

You see, this is why I think that your idea of what Tai Chi ought to look like when the contact and intensity steps up aren't realistic.

Then why pop up with a 'that's not real Tai Chi' comment whenever sparring or competition footage is shown here ?

I agree with you on this point actually. I think people in the crowd did too and that's why people in the audience were shouting 'stop it' at the ref. I still respect his guts for trying and carrying on after the first belting he got.

This is where you and I part company. Body blows would hurt more, and both parties might be keener on striking with the flat of their hands when aiming for the skull (to protect their hands), but I think the lack of safety gear would've just made it more dangerous for the older guy.

People who think that physical fitness doesn't have an effect on how well you will function in a fight are kidding themselves, but you are wrong on this point in another way. I have seen people handle younger, and larger opponents with relative ease. How ? because they had much more experience at fighting with hard contact.

 

I believe these people study Taiji, and I think there's a lot of Taiji you can use in a sport environment. However, I don't really see these people using Taiji moves or principles in any meaningful way. I know sparring doesn't look pretty, but I don't see a single movement or technique from Taiji here.

I mean, when you watch a BJJ match you can clearly point out--"look, he's going for arm bar, triangle, omoplata..." If you're watching TKD sparring you can say, "oh, look at that great spinning back kick," etc. Where in here can you say, "look at that great application of single whip/repulse monkey, etc."?
Can you point me to a video clip where you can clearly name a Taiji move being used?

 

Yup.

http://www.oxfordwudang.com/lotus_sweep.0.html

or :-

http://www.oxfordwudang.com/brush_knee.0.html

 

Thank heavens someone here has a brain Onyomi - my point entirely.

Cullion - again it isn't what it 'looks like'... that's your thing. I just don't see any Taiji work in those clips (because there isn't any) (see Onyomi's posting)

Liokault - you are just stirring up a row (again/as usual). Cullion asked me here:

Don't you think it's a bit pathetic that you actually have to lie to stir things up with me? I have also reported your post for calling me a 'racist' just because I described someone as 'young and fit' rather than 'black'.
(That accusation is an example of what we call 'transference' in psychology btw)
I'm out of this discussion until we see some effective moderation
See ya
:Angel:

 

Um...no....if you infact go to post number 6 of this thread you will find infact that you are quoting me....you have changed my name for Cullions, probably because you hate to acknowledge me (lol), you then go on to call ME a liar(?).

By all means, point out any lie that has been told by me.

I think that saying that the black (no matter how you discribe him) guy 'mugged' the old dude was the wrong way to put it, he out classed him, he was clearly better than him and he won....he did not mug anyone.

 

I think you don't see Tai Chi because your expecting something unrealistic.

No, you are quoting a post from Liokault there and afixing my name to it.

 

Is that a reportable offence? should I report him? I mean, he called me a liar to, with no back up....is that reportable?

 

Do you remember that 'centering' technique we were shown the other night ?

'Passive-aggressive-internet-denial-of-being-scared-of-sparring-helps-demented-monkey-get-over-being-bullied-at-school' ?

It was certainly very insensitive of the callous brute, but I'm sure if you breathe deeply whilst visualising the chi leaking out of your ears like warm treacle you can find a 'calm place' from which to forgive him. Grasshopper.

 

LOL,

Is anyone even interested in the lie he keeps alluding to?

 

If I see any more baiting or attacking in this thread, there will be severe punishments for the involved parties.

 

Why ? why not let people just post their views and bleep out any swearwords if you're concerned about minors reading ? I really, really, don't cry myself to sleep when somebody strongly disagrees with me, and I doubt TJB does either.

Liokault does sometimes, but he's coming to terms with it, and facing the ferocious critical debate on MAP is part of his therapy.

 

I kind of agree with sandus, things do need to be kept on topic.

We all care enough about our MA to get carried way with the sheer emotion.

 

Teacher's pet.

 

ENOUGH! This forum is for DISCUSSION about martial arts. It's not about winding each other up and taking up my time making sure that all of you get some sort of "justice" when you and your arts are "wronged" by people with different opinions. I am a volunteer here, and not a volunteer with unlimited time. I dedicate a lot of time to this forum to ensure that it runs smoothly.

Now when you say that my job is to bleep out swear words and personal attacks, you severely understimate the job I do here. As a matter of fact, in one of the most difficult forums to manage here, I happen to be one of the most relaxed and forgiving mods here. There has been a time when I've had to DEFEND each and every one of you for some sort of offense, and I saw fit to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The more this goes on, the thinner my patience gets. You only get so many free passes before you can hit the road and whine on your personal website or some other forum about how strict you think the MAP mods are and how you were unfairly binned or banned for no reason.

The fact is, 99% of the time I'm on your side. I voice no opinions in agreement or disagreement with any of the schools of thought in an effort to remain neutral. All I ask is that you get along with each other and FOLLOW THE RULES. If you aren't familiar with which rules you're breaking, consult the Terms of Service and study hard.

Now unbunch your collective panties and get back on topic.

 

Well, Onyomi (IIRC) asked if there were any clips of recognisable TCC techniques being used in full contact competition. I posted links to video of what I thought were examples of such. What did people think ?

 

I think those were a bit better than the originally posted videos. I wasn't saying you can't use Taiji in a free-sparring, sport-type situation, just that I couldn't recognize any in the videos posted originally. Can you point me to where the people in the original videos are using Taiji moves? Do you or Liokault have any more clips like those Brush Knee and Lotus Kick ones? We need more of that kind of thing to show that at least some Taiji moves can be effectively practiced in a sport situation.

That being said, while I can see the motions being performed, I still think the strategy employed is a bit odd for Taiji. I don't think bouncing, bobbing and weaving are usually a Taiji strategy. More like "make contact, move into close range and unbalance the opponent by using rooting and full-body power." If anything, I'd say they play "keep-away" more than a Taiji player should. Also, though I understand the body mechanics of Wu are different from Chen, I don't see a whole lot of Taiji body mechanics either. I feel like the impression a good Taiji player should give is that they're punching with the body, not the arms. I didn't really get that impression from the clip. Of course, I realize you can only see so much of what's going on in a clip and that it's all much easier in theory than against a live opponent, but I definitely see room for improvement in terms of using Taiji principles and strategy.

Are those clips of Liokault sparring still up somewhere? Or are there others? He's considered pretty experienced in the Wudang system, right? Maybe Lio could post them again and say "look, I'm using brush knee in this clip," or "see how I stick to the opponent in this clip." That would help prove Wudang is really using Taiji moves and principles to spar and not just kickboxing. (I promise I won't make any jokes about the hairline )

 

My point was they're experienced enough at their art to exercise restraint. Any knucklehead can throw a knockout with a haymaker. That doesn't require skill or practice, just an opportunity for a cheap shot.

They're actually quite good at kicking, stricking and combination joint locks. I don't know if you've ever seen Taichi freesparring, but you don't "co-operate swith each other". The submissions aren't very nice (if they don't want them to be).

These guys generally do about an hour of forms, followed by an hour of push hands then they spar for an hour or so. Class is two to three times a week. They're serious about their art. I'll say this much, having seen the video that was posted at the beginning of this thread, I'd rather step up to the chumps in the gloves than the real players on the west side of Houston.