Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi Compared

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by onyomi, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I thought this article on the Yin Cheng Gong Fa Association website was so interesting that I had to post it and see what you all thought:

    Begin Quote:

    Just like the extinct style of Neijia Quan, all three styles use Taoist philosophy (as distinct from Taoist religion.) as the foundation of their principles. The basic concepts of Taoist philosophy came from several different sources and developed for a long time. The main sources included Laozi and Zhuangzi, the Yi Jing, the concepts of Yin-Yang, Wuxing, Bagua and some Confusion ideas. About 2000 years ago, these principles started to mix together little by little. Finally the idea of Tao, the name of Taoist philosophy, became the most influential principle pervading traditional Chinese culture.

    When martial arts were developed to such level, people want to use higher level principle to instruct their practice. As the most important base of traditional Chinese culture, Taoism was introduced into martial arts naturally. From old Neijia Quan to Taiji, Bagua, and Xingyi, all used Taoist philosophy as the foundation of their principles. From this point, when the skill level of Taiji, Bagua, and Xingyi was developed to a higher level, their practice and application became more similar as they derived from the same general principle. It means that the same principle decided the essence of these styles are similar.

    Although Taiji, Bagua, and Xingyi derive from the same principle system, each art emphasizes a different aspect of Taoist principles. Taijiquan uses the Taiji principle of Taoist philosophy as its main concept. This principle emphasizes the dynamics of the Yin-Yang (i.e., positive-negative, active-inactive, substantial-insubstantial) concept. The main idea is about the balance and exchange of Yin-Yang. From this principle, some special Taiji skills were developed, such as how to use quiet to overcome moving, how the weak can defeat the strong, and how to lure the opponent to come in and fall down by his own force, etc.

    Baguazhang uses the Bagua principle of Taoist philosophy as its main concept. This principle is based on the Yi Jing (i.e., Book of Changes) which is about the changing principle of the world. From this principle of change, some special Bagua skills were developed, such as Tou Shen Huan Ying (steal body away instead of the shadow), Ye Di Cang Hua (flower hides under the leaves), and Zou Ma Hui Tou (running horse returns back its head), etc.

    Xingyiquan combines Xing (the shape of 12 animals) and Yi (mind-intent) attributes. The Wuxing (5 elements) principle of Taoist philosophy is used as its main concept. The Wuxing principle emphasizes the rule of Sheng (creation) and Ke (destruction) in universal changing. From this principle, some special Xingyi skills were developed, such as Pi, Beng, Zhuan, Pao, Heng, the creative and destructive circles of Sheng and Ke, etc.

    3. Similarities and Differences in Neijia Fighting

    Although Taiji, Bagua, and Xingyi use their own skills in fighting, all follow basic concepts of Neijia Quan, such as use quiet to control moving; use soft to control hard; use smaller force to defense bigger force; launch later but reach early; refrain substantial and attack insubstantial, and Yin and Yang supply each other and exchange. All these ideas can be found in Taoist philosophy.

    Essentially, the main idea of Neijia is about seeking maximal efficiency. Consequently, one seeks to avoid opposing force directly, instead one tries to find the ideal timing, position and direction to exploit an opponent’s weakness. In order to do this, one needs to develop a high degree of sensitivity to feel the opponent’s intent, structure, timing and movement, as well as a relaxed, flexible physical adaptability to take advantage of when the opportunity arises. Rather than simply launching a set attack or defense combination, ones attempts to first control the opponent. According to this approach, one considers efficiency to be paramount over effect, process more important than product.

    The intention of high level skill in each of these three styles is similar although each art uses different ways. Tuo Hua (no skill to win skill) is a result of high level practice in all three styles. High level skills of these three styles require great sensitivity. It is called "know yourself and your opponent" and "the mysterious ability is that make changes according to the opponent’s change."

    Although the basic concepts are similar, each art uses different training methods. They have different features of their fighting skills. Because they were developed in different ways, all three internal styles have their own high level fighting technique goal in fighting. Traditionally, the goal of Taijiquan is called "empty motion;" the goal of Baguazhang is called "change motion;" the goal of Xingyiquan is called "straight motion."

    In Taijiquan, the high level fighting technique goal is Kong Dong (empty motion) or Kong Jin (empty force, though not to be confused with Lin Kong Jin, the idea of moving an opponent without touching), which is the most typical feature of Taiji fighting skill. It means to let the opponent feel something he thinks he can get, but cannot really get because it is empty. It should induce in the opponent a surprised and frightened feeling, like when one walks on the top of a high building and suddenly steps on an empty place. Usually the skill is described as "lure in and fill in emptiness." Here "lure in" is a key concept, it is not "force in." The feeling is just like to suddenly appear and/or disappear. One lets the opponent feel something, but get nothing. All Taiji skills should meet this goal. It should follow the basic Taiji principle as Yin and Yang supplement each other and exchange. The technical foundation of Kong Jin is Zhan (adhere up), Nian (stick to), Lian (link), and Sui (follow). If one does not exhibit these attributes, one is not considered to practice Taiji in the right way. In application, changes of Yin-Yang happen on the inside of the touching point between your opponent and you, but your physical body may just show really small even invisible movement.

    In Baguazhang, the high level fighting technique goal is Bian Dong (change motion) or Bian Jin (change force), which is the most typical feature of Bagua fighting skill. It means change should happen at any time and anywhere and without the opponent feeling it. Anytime one makes contact with the opponent, change must be done continually until you win.

    The change should not let the opponent feel before it really happens. It should induce in the opponent an unsure feeling. The description of Bian Jin is "move then change, change then evolve (turn into), evolution to evolution, never stop." The idea is to use quick and continuous changes to make the opponent lose his concentration and then beat him from his weakness point. Never oppose the opponent’s force with one’s own force directly. One should always change when one’s force meets the opponent’s force. All Bagua skills should meet this goal. It should follow the basic Bagua principle of change. The technical foundation of Bian Jin is Zou (go away), Chuan (pass through), Ning (twisting), and Fan (turn over). Without these attributes, one is not really doing Bagua. In application, a lot of visible changes are made. These changes should be continuous and smooth. Do not let the opponent to feel any change until the changes really happen. The physical changes should follow internal changes.

    In Xingyiquan, the high level fighting technique goal is Zhi Dong (straight motion) or Zhi Jin (straight force), which is the most typical feature of Xingyi fighting skill. It means when contact is made with an opponent, use a straight force to cross the opponent’s force and suddenly increase one’s own force. It means to attack the opponent at his weakness point (with proper positioning, timing, and direction), or to use a big and strong power to attack his weakness point directly. One should let the opponent feel one’s power is so strong that he is unable to defend against it. One should never use one’s power to oppose the opponent’s force directly.

    Sometimes the outside movement may appear to directly oppose the opponent’s force, but in fact inside one should make a simple change to cut across the opponent’s force. With this change, one will be much stronger than the opponent along this particular force vector. The description of Zhi Jin is "Heng (side to side) defense Shun (straight); and Shun defense Heng." All Xingyi skills should meet this goal and should follow 5 elements principles of creation and destruction. The technical foundation of Zhi Jin is Ci (stamp), Pu (spring on), Guo (wrap up), Shu (tie or bind), Jie (decisive). Without these attributes, one is not really doing Xingyi. In application, the break points of physical movements may be visible but internal change should be smooth. Also, the physical movement changes usually are different from the internal changes. It is called "looks like diagonal but is straight inside; and looks like straight but is diagonal."

    4. Similarities and Differences in Neijia Practice

    Basically, the top level fighting principles of these three styles are similar (e.g., never use force against force directly), but each has different technique goals so each art uses different methods to reach those goals. In the early stages of training, these arts appear very different, however, as one’s skill level advances, one finds more similarities the higher one goes.

    In the Xingyi classics, there is a famous description of the different levels of Neijia training. It is said there are three steps in the training progression: Ming Jin, An Jin and Hua Jin. The first step is Ming Jin _ visible force that means everything can be seen.
    The second step is An Jin _ hidden force that means many things will be hidden inside.
    The third step is Hua Jin _ dissolve force that means the skill should be dissolved in your body. In fact, this idea reflects the evolutionary development of Chinese martial arts.

    Martial arts were developed from physical skill to mind control skill, from low level to high level. Some styles may have stopped development at some point, so they were not developed to high level. All three Neijia styles are generally regarded as having evolved high level skills.

    In Xingyiquan, the progression of these three steps is very clearly seen. Xingyi practice progresses from hard to soft. In the beginning, Xingyi practitioners train obvious power from Ming Jin training, making body movement strong, hard and coordinated. Then, at the An Jin level, training shifts to an emphasis on relaxation and smoothness. Finally, Hua Jin reflects the highest refinement of skill.

    The advantage of the Xingyi practice methodology from hard to soft may make it easier for some practitioners to gradually understand internal training of force, qi, and mind, and to connect physical practice with the generation of power. The disadvantage is that may be too easy to fall into the trap of being too tight and stiff. Even though the progressive principle is clear, in practice the change from Ming Jin to An Jin requires internal adjustment, and from An Jin to Hua Jin is very difficult. It is very common for Xingyi practitioners to remain at the level of Ming Jin even after many years hard training because they do not know how to progress to the next step (An Jin) and perhaps do not even realize the need to further progress.

    In Taijiquan training, Ming Jin and An Jin are relatively de-emphasized. In the beginning, after a short period of training An Jin, many groups train students to focus on Hua Jin training directly. Taiji practitioners lay great emphasis on the importance of learn how to relax without compromising structural strength, utilizing smooth, slow, even movement practice to achieve coordination, relaxation, sensitivity, and power. From this approach, it is believed that if one can understand Hua Jin, Ming Jin and An Jin are relatively simple and easy. Unfortunately, many practitioners misunderstand the emphasis on Hua Jin to think there is no Ming Jin or An Jin training in Taiji.

    The advantage of the Taiji approach is that it makes it clear from the outset the high level goal of Taiji training. Ideally, following this approach may make it easier for practitioners to understand internal components training, like Shen, Yi, and Qi, and also high level martial arts concepts. The disadvantage is that because it is difficult to understand Hua Jin skills, many practitioners appear to fail to achieve any discernable results even after practicing for many years.

    Baguazhang training sets out to practice in An Jin mode to acquire both Ming Jin and Hua Jin skills. In the beginning, Bagua practitioners should focus on both physical and mind training. To make the movement relaxed and smooth and to concentrate the mind is very important. The advantage of the Bagua approach is aid the practitioner to understand and feel the coordination and application of the physical movements and internal components in the body movement and footwork. The disadvantage is that is easy to all into the trap of becoming unctuous, showy and superficial, so that the foundation will be poor.

    The above generalizations about the relative advantages and disadvantages in the training of each style are not meant as simple good or bad judgments. The stated advantage of a particular Neijia style merely suggests that its training methodology may make it easier for practitioners to acquire certain skills, not that everyone will get it. The stated disadvantage merely refers to the fact that its training methodology may make it easier for practitioners to overlook certain pitfalls, not that everyone will stumble. Any of these styles can provide a road that one may travel to achieve high level skill, however, one may find that one has an affinity for one style over another depending on one’s personality, body type, etc.

    Cross-training in two or three Neijia styles is also a common idea because different styles can bring different benefits. The potential advantage is that one may come to understand Neijia Quan from different views. But the potential disadvantage is that sometimes one simply becomes lost and confused. With proper instruction, if one can keep everything clearly in his mind, can separate the flavor of each style clearly, and can work hard in each practice, cross-training may be beneficial. Otherwise, a better idea is to wait until one can understand one style well and then go on to learn others. The worst situation is to practice everything together to the point where one cannot clearly separate one from another. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon to see a cross-trained practitioner practicing several arts externally with the flavor or internal attributes of another, for example, when one practices Bagua which looks like Taiji with Bagua gestures.

    This article has tried to suggest that Taijiquan, Xingyiquan and Baguazhang share basic principles which are typically trained in different ways and emphasize different aspects. The fighting concepts of these arts are similar, but the methods and skills are different. The internal practice is similar, but external practice appears different. At the low level, one tends to focus on the differences between these arts. At high level skill, one sees more similarities. One should study the similarities and differences closely and clearly in order to fully understand these arts.

    End Quote
     
  2. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    Spare time much?
     
  3. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Well... I know it's kind of long, but I was particularly interested in the comparison between Taiji's creation of "emptiness," versus Bagua's "changing" versus Xingyi's "linear force." I also liked how Xingyi is said to move from obvious force to hidden force while Taiji moves from hidden force to obvious force.

    Although I don't usually like such overarching generalizations, it also backs up an idea I once read that the three internals can be ordered Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji in order of most outward display of force at lower levels to least. This same article said that Bagua was especially good as a supplement to either one as it is kind of in between the two on this one.

    I also think it's interesting that Xingyi, one of the so-called "internal" arts, moves from outward force to inward force, just like Shaolin. These three arts are called Neijia-quan (internal boxing) because 19th and 20th century practitioners of the arts exchanged and compared their arts, finding they were uniquely complementary of one another. The original neijia-quan was a martial art of its own popular during the 16th century that is now lost. Therefore, it is incorrect to speak of martial arts as internal when what you mean is "makes use of qi" or "uses relaxation and technique to overcome strength." Internal refers only to these three CMAs that their practitioners decided to group together.
     
  4. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    True very true, but I suspect, as often is the result, that history performed its speciality job, and that Changing, Linear Force and Emptiness may be alternate terms for some relatively similar concepts.



    This may be off topic, but what I like about all three, is that they survived the transition to western worlds. All of those, especially Taiji, abhor the 'Fight fire with Fire' tactic, and encourage Empty Vs. Full. Yet the former of the two is a common western philosophy but still these three IMA's remained intact through a cultural transition into a civilization that used such opposing tactics. To me, this seems to show that aspects such as countering Empty with Full that are apart of Taiji managed to keep it whole during its transition.

    In short im saying that some concepts of the art, managed to apply to its cultural survival in a new land. Which should be a whole 'nother part of the three forms I say. 'Dealing with a whole new enviroment' :D
     
  5. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Yes, I think that one of the best things Taiji has going for it in the modern world is that it STARTS with the internal aspect, with the relaxation, with the slow practice, with the yeilding. These are all considered relatively advanced concepts in Shaolin training. Since people tend to judge an art based on what they can see by watching it or by what they learn in one year of practicing it, Taiji makes even the impatient student learn the value of relaxation and internal energy. For this reason, I think it is especially well-suited to the modern world. Too bad there aren't more people teaching the internal aspect of Shaolin, though.
     
  6. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    Mm-hmm, totally true, I would have moderate reason to suspect however that the reason so few teach the internal of Shaolin because either they are still in temples, or (as far as the west is concerned) they have found that following the lifestyle, (Which I believe is necesary to learn its internal points, correct me as necesary there) is to difficult to be worth the reward. Truly sad indeed. Especially since Shaolin & many other traditional CMA's are so very intresting when comes down to their finer points. And your right on about western views of Taiji, but I suspect a truly impatient student would not even wish to finish watching a Taiji video before giving it up. In truth, the real thing killing the movements of severla MA's to the west is a largely impatient student base. Most start while young, and us youngsters are notoriously quick-willed. Thats why patience truly is a virtue.
     
  7. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I think another difficulty with learning the internal aspects of Shaolin versus Taiji is that the external and internal aspects have to be trained more seperately in Shaolin. Because of their relatively slow speed and the nature of many of the postures, Taiji and Bagua can double as a kind of "moving qigong." Therefore, you're learning at least some of the internal aspect simply by practicing the external form well. Shaolin forms, on the other hand, are almost entirely combat or body-mechanics oriented and therefore require that the internal aspect be learned seperately through qigong and meditation.

    The Buddhist system of qigong traditionally practiced by the Shaolin monks is one of the largest, most meticulously documented, most comprehensive and well-respected systems of internal energy cultivation in the world. Unfortunately, doing qigong by itself is both boring and exhausting--especially if your motivation in learning MA is primarily to kick butt, qigong can seem pointless. Once the student becomes proficient at qigong, however, a whole new level of Shaolin practice opens up and the forms begin to feel quite noticeably different and much more powerful--but this level cannot be reached by just practicing the forms over and over as it can, to some extent, in Taiji.

    You don't have to be a vegetarian, shave your head, be celibate or live in a monastery to be a good Shaolin practitioner (although the lack of distractions is a big plus)--you just need to spend as much time studying the internal side, i.e. the qigong and meditation side, as you do the external (forms, sparring, etc). Unfortunately, it seems that monks are among the few people with the patience to do that nowadays.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2005
  8. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    You know what?





















































    True dat.
     
  9. Ziranmen

    Ziranmen New Member

    Did somebody actually say something sensible on this forum. Wow.

    What are your thoughts on cross training Shaolin and Taiji then?

    Maybe but I think there is definately an advantage on learning the external side and getting a physical foundation before jumping into Taiji. Some people jump in thinking that Taiji is easy to do physically and don't do the movements correctly because they find that they are actually require some physical exertion to do. Thats ok in one sense, because some people just want to do it for health and dont care about the martial side. I just hate it when these people learn the forms and decide to become instructors. Beginners learning from these people think that that's all there is to Taiji when its not. Yang style is particularly bad. So many dodgy instructors out there diluting the art :(
     
  10. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Yes, as far as producing people with actual martial ability I think the problem is more severe with Taiji because bad Shaolin teachers at least teach you the external elements of Shaolin without the internal. Bad teachers of Taiji, on the other hand, teach neither. Bad Taiji is nothing more than calisthenics... What is good about Taiji as compared to Shaolin, however, is that you CAN'T really fight with Taiji without the internal, whereas you can still do pretty well with only the external of Shaolin. Therefore, if your goal is to get good at fighting with Taiji, then Taiji kind of forces you to learn some of the internal before giving you anything you can realistically use in a fight.

    I think cross-training Taiji and Shaolin is a great idea, which is why I do it myself. Although the only "purely" Shaolin I know are a few Taizu Chang-quan forms, I do study Northern Praying Mantis, which is heavily influenced by Shaolin and I think that the combination of the two work out very well. Taiji, ironically, is a kind of brutish art. Yes, it derives its brute strength more from qi and body mechanics than big muscles, but it still has a kind of brute strength nonetheless. I mean, basically the Taiji strategy is to lure the opponent into a vulnerable position and then crush them or send them flying. Praying Mantis, on the other hand has lots of complex foot and handwork that require great finesse and timing, as well as a lot of use of the individual fingers to grab pressure points, etc., something rarely found in Taiji. (No, I'm not saying Taiji has no finesse). Taiji also derives its jin-dao from the legs and hips, as opposed to Prayin Mantis, which derives it more from the waist.

    Also, I think cross-training with Taiji would be beneficial to just about any MAist just because it places more emphasis in the beginning stages on total relaxation than probably any other art. This is vital to Praying Mantis because the speed, sensitivity and ability to issue power all depend on being totally relaxed during all interim movements... So I trap them with Praying Mantis and crush them with Taiji... :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2005
  11. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    Thats an intresting strategy, a bait-and-switch of sorts in combat. Something noteworthy for future reference, im sure. Now I pose you this question, while I can undertand easily how the difference between where Taiji & Mantis draw their jin-dao, but I ask is that as long as your train whichever one you wish to use, at an equal amount, is there any difference in the jin-dao? Is using the hips better then legs & hips? From what I know, I think the answer is no. You?
     
  12. Ziranmen

    Ziranmen New Member

    Which form of mantis do you learn? I've done a small amount of Liu He Mantis, which I think is northern as well. It sounds a lot different to yours though.

    My main background is Liu He Men Shaolin (which is not related to Liu He Mantis in any way, other than philosophy I think). One thing about the Liu He Men style is that it has a Wudang Taiji form incorperated into the system. Also of note is that the Liu He Men master Liu De Kuan studied Bagua under Dong Hai back in the day.

    Ever seen the 64 movement fighting hand set? It was invented by Liu De Kuan and has Liu He Men, Xing Yi and Ba Gua movements combined into one set. Some Cheng style Bagua masters know it as well, as Cheng was a good friend of Liu De Kuan. Good to learn if you have the chance.
     
  13. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Well, you can't really make full use of both the waist and kua (band of muscles around the butt and upper thighs) in one move, but it is good to know how to make use of both. Taiji, is actually relatively unusual among MAs in its use of the kua as not only does Praying Mantis make use primarily of the waist, but so does Bagua, and, from my understanding the majority of Shaolin-derived styles. Generally speaking I think the kua jin-dao may be more powerful but is also slightly slower and occupies the legs with the generation of power rather than evasive footwork. Using the waist, on the other hand, is slightly faster and also frees up the legs for footwork. But then again, using the kua frees up the entire upper body, including the shoulders for use in powerful attacks... so they both have their pros and cons.

    I've only studied one set from Liuhe Mantis (Canghua), but from what I understand it is a relatively atypical branch of Mantis with lots of circular motions, strong emphasis on rou-jin (strong within soft) and relatively few of the hooking and trapping motions typically thought to be representative of Mantis. I mostly do Chang-quan and Guang-ban Mantis, though I would like to study some more Liuhe as well as other styles of Mantis in the future. I hope one day my Shifu will teach me Shuai-shou Tanglang ("Hand-throwing Praying Mantis"), which is his signature style. Unfortunately it is very advanced and he says he has not yet had a student he felt was capable of learning it properly. But it looks soooo cool! It uses a very unusual hand position, with the index and ring fingers higher than the others. It's very relaxed, but also lighting-fast and complex. (Not that I really understand it, I just got him to do a bit of it for me once.)
     
  14. Ziranmen

    Ziranmen New Member

    Your mantis style sounds interesting. Got any links?

    Liu he mantis has a lot of internal elements in it. One set in particular, Tuan Chui (short hammer?) is very good for practicing internals. It has a rather strong Xing Yi influence. The only mantis set I've learnt from a different system came from the MeiHua-Taiji Mantis style. A friend of my Sifu's in China taught it to me when I was on holiday. Never caught the name of the form though, but the style sounds a bit closer to yours.
     
  15. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I don't think I have... though I have studied the Liang style Bagua Linear 64 Palms Form... I don't think that's the same, though...

    In addition to being a style of Praying Mantis, Liuhe is also a Shaolin style as well, correct? What are its general characteristics, if you don't mind my asking?
     
  16. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Here's a video of my Shifu doing a Chang-quan Mantis Form, Xiao-huyan:

    http://www.kungfuloung.com.tw/TV002.wmv

    Unfortunately, my Shifu only has video clips of the forms he's put on DVD, which are all the relatively basic ones. I've never been able to find a video of someone doing Shuai-shou Tanglang--and my Shifu's the only person I know that does it. It was the specialty of Wang Songting from Shandong province, who taught it to my Shifu, Zhou Baofu, and several other of his senior students. Therefore, you might have better luck looking for students of Wang Song Ting if you really want to have a look at Shuai-shou. (Tell me if you find anything :) )
     
  17. Ziranmen

    Ziranmen New Member

    Liu He Men (the Shaolin style, not the mantis style) is one of the core sets of of the northern Weituomen branch of Shaolin boxing. It originated from Liu Shi Jun who was a eagle claw master. He passed it onto Liu De Kuan who was famous for his spear technique as well as being a famous Ba Gua master. Our branch is from Wan Lai Shen, who studied Liu He Men before going onto master Zi Ran Men, which is one of the rarer internal style. It is usually customary to learn a Shaolin style before you learn Ziranmen, so most Ziranmen masters also know Liu He Men because of this reason.

    The Liu He Men style itself has a lot of sets. Just about every weapon you can think of is covered. Because the teachers cross trained a lot you also get some interesting sets as well, such as the Wudang Taiji one I mentioned which was given as a gift to the school from a friendly Taiji master. There is a complicated twin straight sword set in there as well that came from outside.

    What I like about our teacher is that he teaches the internal part of the very well, mainly because of his Ziranmen background, which, as you mentioned, can be hard to find in Shaolin schools. My Sifu also actively encourages crosstraining, which I find interesting. He actually crosstrains himself and learns and teaches Cheng style Bagua in a separate class.
     
  18. Kempo Fighter

    Kempo Fighter New Member

    Question Onyomi: Was the sound effects in the backround of the clip you gave us really necesary?


    P.S. Your shifu looks like he kicks ass :D
     
  19. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I know the sound effects are cheesy, but I don't have the heart to tell him... They're not present in his actual DVDs, though, just the previews. Probably a holdover from the time he spent a few decades ago working in the Hong Kong film industry. :)
     
  20. Ziranmen

    Ziranmen New Member

    I thought the sound effects were cool :cool: Very funny, but you can tell just by watching that he knows his ****.

    I esp liked that little triple kick thing he does at the end as well.
     

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