Tai Chi vs. Aikido

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Infrazael, Apr 4, 2005.

  1. wanderingdaoist

    wanderingdaoist New Member

    You're right, i did let my racism come out... living in china is getting the better of me, and i don't like what it's turning me in to. Anyway, mea culpa, i'm sorry for offending anyone, but i do honestly think the thread should be locked as it's not healthy for any of us, including myself to dwell on it.

    I'm sorry for stepping out of bounds, I do think that more people should try living in china and keeping a positive outlook on the people/culture though. not nearly as easy as it sounds.
  2. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    The Sophists weren't far off , they were like the buddists/taoists (philosophically) of Ancient Greece. Socrates (the greatest sophist - it is said) seemed to discredit them by turning the knowledge and wisdom of Monism back on them by taking up their own brand of rhetoric and dialectic and useing it against them... He was just showing off his cleverness really..it paved the way.

    Phaedrus (lone wolf), was having none of it though..

    He was well versed in such games and knew instinctively that ''cleverness was its own trap''. ;)
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2005
  3. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    "No one has a monopoly of the truth" - Buddhist saying.... :)

    AikiMac - I apologise if my 'recreation' description sounded dismissive, it wasn't intended that way, I was trying to express that Ueshiba's apparent intention was to develop people rather than simply teach them martial art for its own sake. There is also a lot of co-operation in the way it is practised (quite rightly too imo) which can be a problem against a resistant opponent should you encounter one. There is a big difference in theoretically breaking someone's wrist and actually doing it lol
    My Uncle is a brown belt in Tomiki Aikido and also holds a blackbelt in Judo, he taught judo for many years before taking up aikido... so i grew up with judo before I ever started Taijiquan. We have discussed tjq and aikido at length over the years. Also my second tjq teacher practised aikido for some years before starting to teach tjq. I have only done only a little of it but I have studied Ueshiba's (and others) writings and tried as best I can to incorporate them into my (infamously mongrel) style of tjq lol
    I would maintain that Aiki-do is not aimed at 'real-situation' usage as much as its forbear Aiki-jutsu, although it can, of course, be 'fired up' if necessary for practical useage. It's a bit like the difference between judo and jujutsu imo.
    Of course, it does depend on the intentions in practice of the exponent, but I certainly got a shock when I tried to use tjq under pressure the first time lol. With a little training you get past all that but I wonder how many practitioners of both arts actually realise this pitfall...? In Aikido's favour is that it is at least practised at speed and is more physically paced than tjq... how many Taiji injuries do you hear about? lol I hear of people breaking and straining stuff doing Aikido all the time, not that that is a selling point imo.... :rolleyes:
  4. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Ohh me me me!! I done a guys anckle in!! Wasn't my fault though, his toe got caught in my shorts!

    But in regards to using Tai Chi under pressure, it is a shock! Amazing how much you know just flies out of the window. But everyone in every style gets the same at first, down to experience I suppose. My first (and only) pushing hands competition I turned into a Sumo Wrestler! :D The other guy, a very experienced competator, ate me up! :D Second bought with another guy was better, still kicked my ****, but only by a point or two, unlike the first guy! Was still as stiff as a board though. Was a great learning experience. Hopefully I'll do better, in a tai chi sense, next time round, but hopefully I still learn as much as I did last time.
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I'll agree with all of that. :)

    Back to the original question: I agree with posts 6, 7, and 12 on the first page. :D
  6. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Actually, so do I lol :cool: I think (and I know certain practitioners will disagree before I even write this... :rolleyes: ) both aikido and taijiquan are essentially non-violent in their outlook, but retain the idea of defensive force to protect one's peaceful way of living....
  7. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    the winner of the battle is the win who moves 1000lbs of force with 4 ounces of strenth quickest. who will be providing 1000lbs of strength? Frank Dux.
  8. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    Was Aikido copied and modified from Bagua ?

    Police have raided the Toyota Formula One racing team's factory in Germany on suspicion of industrial espionage involving Ferrari, with one Toyota engineer reportedly arrested.
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/02/1067708065973.html ( leading Australian Newspapers)

    “The familiar comment then, that the Japanese copy everything and invent nothing, is only half true. The Japanese have always copied everything

    Question: Compared with other countries, do you think Japan has many more inventors and scientists?
    Answer :No, not at all. For a long time, the Tokugawa Shogunate closed the door to foreigners, so Japan had no competition. With the Meiji Restoration [in 1868], Japan suddenly opened its doors. There was a very big gap and the Meiji government started sending people abroad to copy everything they had. That is the base of Japan, and I think it is still continuing. It is often said that Japan is the center of technology, but it's "copy technology." The structure of the country has become a "copy nation." In this state, there is no need to invent things because all you have to do is copy from abroad. “
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20040725x4.htm ( Leading Japanese Newspapers)

    “ When discussing my interest, however, I encountered people who derided Japanese culture as "derivative." After all, Japanese kanji characters were Chinese, Buddhism came from India via China, and so forth. And there was this stereotype that the Japanese only knew how to copy the inventions and technology of others. It is true that during the Meiji Era ( late 1880's to early 1900's), Japan, realizing the need to modernize and industrialize sent people around the world to learn about and bring back information from which they had been sheltered during centuries of self-imposed isolation by Shogunate regimes. It was an extraordinary national effort that succeeded in enabling Japan to adapt to the modern world, and to this day, scientific, technological and cultural developments are imported from abroad to advance the prosperity and health of the nation.”
    http://www.cgj.org/en/c/vol_10-2/title_01.html ( Consulate General of Japan in New York)
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  9. wanderingdaoist

    wanderingdaoist New Member

    I don't even think i need to comment, the highlight should be enough.
  10. wanderingdaoist

    wanderingdaoist New Member

  11. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member


    I wasn't portraying Japanese as evil....just describing History as it is , as many are unaware of Japanese atrocities against the Chinese ,and using that scenario to explain that since Japanese hate the Chinese, they are unwilling to admit to learning anything from the Chinese ie. Bagua.

    All your chinese "examples" are internal to China. They don't refer to Chinese killing foreigners. China has a right to govern it's country as it see fits whether you like it or not. USA is always attacking China on it's Human Rights record , yet US commits the worst Human Rights violations.
    Abu Ghraib
    Abu Ghraib
    Abu Ghraib
    Invade Iraq in 2003, so far 100,000 Iraqis dead ?
    And where are these fabled Weapons of Mass Destruction?
    100,000 Iraqis died for America's greed for Oil.

    Tibet belongs to China, and has been Chinese territory since Genghis Khan ( 1300's)...go reread your history book.

    "The Government of Tibet claims Tibet to be a distinct nation independent before conquest by the Mongol Empire (Yuan Dynasty) 700 years ago; between the fall of the Mongol Empire in 1368 and subjugation by the Manchu Empire (Qing Dynasty) in 1720........."

    If you insist China should get out of Tibet, think about how you as an invading /conquering American should return to Europe and Africa.

    Also USA should return Hawaii to the indigenious Hawaiians and all Europeans must leave Canada, Australia / New Zealand and return to Europe...they invaded Australia merely 200 years ago.

    You sure you don't have a double standard?
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  12. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    do you understand the post is a joke? Frank Dux diesn't do aikido or tai chi which is why its a joke.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  13. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    abu graib was not the worst human right violation ever. Not even close. Saddam himself committed worse in the same prison for decades. Japanese committed worse to China during WW2 and lets not forget Germany in WW2. Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot etc etc etc. China has rolled tanks over protesters in Tienman square was worse than making captured Iraq soldiers get naked in a triangle. At least the soldiers are still alive and those involved in prison. US controlled abu Grabib doesn't hold a candle.

    Lets put it in perspective please.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  14. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    Of course I agree....the point I was trying to make is that USA , the self proclaim champion of human rights should look at it's own human rights record before throwing stones at others

    How many countries have China invaded/ occupied in the last 50 years ?

    How many countries have the US invaded / occupied in the same period?
    Go read the news.
  15. wanderingdaoist

    wanderingdaoist New Member

    Tibet has never belonged to china, you're reading some ****ed up history. If we go by that rational, then mongolia should own china, russia should own mongolia, and we should all be controlled by africa, as that is where all humans came from.

    A government doesn't have the right to abuse it's own people, that's basically saying that the United Nations, Geneva Convention and any sense of human rights we have is invalid.

    Firecoins: I know it was a joke, but didn't really process it until later, heh.. i'm slow on sarcasm today.
  16. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Soggycat, how can you honestly compare Abu Graib to The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution? Some US soldiers abused and molested a few prisoners vs. China's causes 30 MILLION people to starve to death because of a political agenda and wages war on its own culture? The estimated number of Iraqi deaths since the beginning of the war is 30,000, not 100,000. Of course, either one is tragic, but neither number compares to the 30 MILLION China let starve to death. But I guess it's okay for a nation to oppress and kill its own people?

    Don't you know that Tibet has a different culture, language and racial makeup from China and has been an autonomous nation for centuries? The Japanese are indeed well known for borowing things from other nations and making them their own. This proves that the Japanese are industrious and creative. They also have their own culture which was indeed influenced greatly by the Chinese, but so what? You're from Australia, aren't you? Aren't you just the descendant of some British criminals and therefore worthless? Isn't any invention the Australians make just a bastardization of British culture then? This is the kind of logic you are using. What other point are you trying to make with this? What does this have to do with Taiji or Aikido? What the hell is wrong with you?

    Does anyone moderate the Taichi forum or have they just given up on it being even remotely sane? This thread should be locked and Soggycat should be banned for grievous ignorance and racism.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  17. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    Of course the current Chinese government took over through revolutuion. Not exactly a democratic process. Certainly this government has a few more human rights violations.
  18. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Soggy soggy soggy oi oi oi!

    Well, folks.... after a slow gentle start....
    "It's Another Soggy Classic!!"Please don't shut the thread mods, it's a testament to the defeat of natural selection by mankind that such an example of ignorance and obnoxious monomania is out there living and breathing and unassassinated - and I do just love to watch the cheeky monkey perform!
    You know, when he stopped posting for a while I felt a little guilty for going so hard on him before, and then after a while, I actually started to miss him....
    ...and now he's back (on full form, I might add)...
    I remember why I wanted him to go away in the first place!! :D :D :D
  19. Kinjiro Tsukasa

    Kinjiro Tsukasa I'm hungry; got troll? Supporter

    Can you give me a good reason why it shouldn't be closed, given that the last dozen posts or so have nothing to do with either Tai Chi or Aikido?

    Back on topic, or it's a wrap!

    (And everybody knock off the personal attacks, while you're at it).
  20. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    aikido versus tai chi, there is no winner until they hit the ring.

    Alot of martial arts have similiar principles. Yes China MA influenced Japanese MA but that doesn't mean Ba Gua played a role in aikido. Its plausible but not necessarily true.

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