T'ai Chi Classics by Waysun Liao

Recently a friend of mine found out I was getting into taiji and gave me a copy of the book T'ai Chi classics, which was translated and compiled by Waysun Liao.

Basically, it seems to be a compilation of three classic texts, with modern day instruction. It provides instruction for a lot of drills, including meditation, methods of controlling qi flow, methods of turning qi into jing, etc.

Does anyone have experience with this book or the classics within it? Would my practice benefit from adding these techniques alongside whatever form work I begin this summer?

 

I think that people have had some very critical things to say about Waysun Liao in the past. Can't remember exactly why, might be worth doing a search.

Personally I would avoid like the plague anything to do with 'qi flow' because it's probably a load of mumbo-jumbo. The actual Taiji classics are worth having because they contain the fundamentla principles behind the style. But they probably won't mean a hell of a lot to you until you've been practising for a while.

I think your best bet is to start practising and rely on your teacher to teach you. I know that when people start it's only natural to be curious and to want to learn as much as possible as fast as possible, but I believe that it's a style where patience is important.

There are millions of Taiji-related books on the market, but from what I've seen, 99% of them are completely useless except for making the author a quick buck. Whether the one you've been given fits into that catagory, I have no idea. But there certainly is no substitute for simply learning from your teacher and then practising daily.

 

Not a fan of the book myself.

A lot of talk about 'energy' and so forth. If you're looking for a book on the classics, I recommend "Tai Chi Chuan, decoding the classics for the modern martial artist" by Dan Docherty.

 

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Does anyone have experience with this book or the classics within it? Would my practice benefit from adding these techniques alongside whatever form work I begin this summer?[/QUOTE)


Like the tao te ching,the tai chi classics are a collection of texts that have been commented on and interpreted(both metaphorically and literally for those who cannot read chinese) by numerous writers over the centuries.
You are always relying on someone elses translation in an anglicised text so it is
beneficial to try and read a number of different authors,especially with books as
esoteric as these.
Do you not think you might be clouding your own judgement by asking other peoples
opinions before studying the texts , concentrating on your own
practice and seeing what you make of them on your own?

 

I'll look into it, thanks for the input.

 

I have the book, I study in the lineage

Until you meet someone who can channel chi, you'll never believe it, unless you are spiritual to begin with. If you're spiritual then you can see that chi is a grosser aspect of spirit.

Temple Style Tai Chi is different from many other forms because first off it is single form. That is you do each form by itself repetitively. Then after some months of practice you combine the forms to do the "dance" or the long form. The long form is what you start of doing at many tai chi schools.

Waysun Liao is bonafide. If you're serious about your inquiry go to the school in Oak Park, IL, right out of chicago. There you'll find people who have been practicing Temple Style, i.e. meditative movements. By practicing tai chi in a very soft way, "shoong", you can get the chi to flow through your body - it'll take about 3 months for you to start feeling it and it'll necessary that you practice with an instructor or someone else who practices in the meditative way.

Here's me doing one side of the long form (watch in hd):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100886611226119&set=vb.32819878&type=3&theater

I don't have time to deal with naysayers. If you don't believe in chi, so be it and peace be onto you.

I'll leave you with this. You'll find this common notation in Tai Chi: Stillness in Movement and Movement in Stillness. What that means is that when you are still, your chi is still moving. When you are moving, your mind is still; i.e. your mind is present, zen.

Good luck on your pursuits.

 

jnanasakti,

I'm not clear about what you mean by 'meditative movements'. Do you mean moving about in a relaxed manner that is based on Taiji forms, or do you mean actually doing Taiji forms?

I think I can understand the similarites between doing Taiji and meditating, but I think I can also understand the differences. So I'm just curious about what you actually mean.

 

A general question, but would like to specifically hear Jnanasakti’s views on this, no worries if you don’t know or don’t wish to share it.

What aspect/part (how and why?) of “tai chi” practice facilitates “spiritual” development? (how and why?)

“Spiritual” is pretty much not possible to define in any real terms (Adjective: relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things), so perhaps “personal” as in “personal development” is a better alternative.

My 2 pence is that diligent and mindful training taught/guided by a skilled teacher (i.e. someone who can physically and repeatedly demonstrate skill) increases awareness allowing one to remove mental and physical habits (conditioned behaviour) and to be present (ideally within each moment) to recognise conditions as they arise and change/react in an appropriate way. From a purely mental perspective, I think it allows one to observe one’s own thought patterns, remove conditioned responses and thereby allow more objective observation of phenomena, within and without.

However, I believe the above is merely an effect of “correct” practice of any so called “internal” martial art and perhaps any martial art (internal, external, etc), but I wouldn’t say it’s the goal. I would go as far as saying that practicing said art/arts with a goal of “spirituality” is counterproductive as the art is a “whole package” deal, so to speak. Whereby increased awareness is the by-product of many different practices, equally for ones of a more meditative nature as ones which test you physically against uncooperative force requiring you to actually manifest the often lauded principles. Likewise, how realistic are personal or public claims of XYZ if they have never been tested, in fact if something has never been tested yet a person believes it to be so, is this not delusional.

Would be glad to hear your thoughts.

In the meantime, we have previously had some discussion on the merits of Temple Style Tai Chi here:

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67552

 

I'll respond as I can but I'm not willing too go to far into it because ultimately the discussion will lead to question as to the existence of chi and that will be futile for both assertions, for and against.

However since my experience is with chi, it's existence will be a the premise for my responses. Take it as you will.

 

The reason we call it the dance is because you have a partner. Its not just you alone, you're dancing with your chi. When we do the longform, it's one long fluid motion from beginning to end with, chi moving throughout the forms; you following the chi, the chi following you. It's not a strenuous form nor is it empty movement of the body. However, in order to move your chi you must unlesh/aquire it first and that's why our primary and intial practice is single form; each form repeated singularly, one after the other.

 

By meditative movements, I mean doing the Taji Forms in a relaxed yet buoyant manner. To us in Temple Style, Tai Chi Chuan and QiGong are one in the same. In Traditional QiGong, you mostly meditate in fixed positions. I.e. standing with your arms to the side, suspended, rooted, breath, focus on your tan tien, etc. For us we are doing this with each movement of any Taiji Form.

 

That's fine, your opinion is yours to choose.

 

Thank you for the reply. I think I have a better understanding of what you mean now.

What you are describing is how we are taught to do the forms, pushing hands, and simply standing and relaxing. There should be no difference between any of them in this respect.

A lot of what you say about the way that you practise sounds very familiar, when potential misunderstanding over terminology is overcome. (Which I think is a perennial problem when we are discussing things which really need to be seen and to be felt in order to be understood. It's an unavoidable limitation of a martial arts forum.)

Where I don't agree with your posts is that you seem to be making claims that this 'temple style' is somehow unique, or that it posesses 'special qualities' that the more widely recognised styles of Taiji don't have. And the claims that it is the original style that was mysteriously rediscovered sound extremely fishy, to put it mildly.

Which isn't to say that what you are doing isn't good Taiji. But I do find made-up histories rather depressing. I know it's not your fault, you are just repeating what you've been told.

 

Lol, I've been studing for 10 years about 2 hours a day. The claim of temple style over other styles is not that it is not that it is better, but that it is the correct way to do Tai Chi, in that Tai Chi is about meditative movements. Nowadays many schools teach meditative movements but there are those schools that do not and teach tai chi as a matter of angles, physical movements and ultimately relaxing the muscles but nothing further then that.

I would agree with the temple style claims in this regard. However look at Master Chen Man-ch'ing, he didn't practice temple style but he did undoubtly practice meditative movements. Master Liao quotes Chen Man-ch'ing in Tai Chi Classics:

"Years ago, as I chatted and had tea with Master Chen Man-ch'ing in his attic... I then asked him about his own method of explaining shoong. "Are you still telling your advanced students that you once dreamed that you lost both arms and since then you have realized the true meaning of shoong?" I asked jokingly. We both laughed."​

I guess it's possible Chen Man-ch'ing was humoring Master Liao by keeping his company. Although I would contend that they were on the same wavelength. Most people don't reach that wavelength in tai chi. I mean you for example. Even though you don't possess any real understanding of the art you practice, it's not your fault. You're like most people.

 

Tai Chi is about killing, disabling or otherwise incapacitating or neutralizing an attacker. The meditative aspect is simply one (of many) of the training tools that Tai Chi uses in order to reach it's desired outcomes.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on the meditative aspect but to call it 'correct' (and therein suggest that other methods are incorrect) is simply incorrect

 

Janasakti is either a troll or he genuinely believes the nonsense perpetuated by his art. I've just read up on the "history" of his art and it is simply lies that goe so far as to link Tai chi's origins to the Bible and calls Chen stylists a bunch of liars and claims that everyone for the last 300 years is practicing a watered down version of tai chi.

Temple style is an affront to people who actually practice taiji quan. Since Janaskti is more interested dancing than in martial arts I think he should stick to doing jazz hands.

 

I don't think that it's fair to slag off Janasakti's own practise or his reasons for doing it. He may well be perfectly genuine and has simply been gullible in believing the lies which the Temple organisation use to market their product.

It is unfortunate that he takes such a high-and-mighty tone, and seems to feel justified in belittling everyone else because we are not 'in on the secret'. Again, the idea that only 'temple style' is real Taiji and all else is fake is a lie that he has swallowed hook line and sinker.

 

Really?
Taijiquan originated as a martial art; that is, a codified, systematic method of teaching combative techniques.
Any and all martial arts require a degree of focused concerntration in order to develop skill - in this, Taijiquan is not alone. This is the 'meditative state' of Taijiquan; focusing on the objective, awareness of the body and of the opponent, focused intention etc.

However, it has become the 'selling point' of Taijiquan, based around the external appearance (soft, slow movements, etc) that this is some sort of mystical Chinese meditative dance - not so!
To not practice Taijiquan as a full-blooded martial art is to not realise the potential therein.
Any health, or spiritual benefits are derived FROM the martial art training - not the reverse!

As a martial art, Taijiquan practice DOES involve an understanding of fighting angles, applied via physical movements.
Relaxation of the muslces is key to the softness of Taijiquan, as in every day life, we pick up 'baggage tension', which we end up carrying around with us. By working to release this tension, we can better apply force to a technique, because our structure is not restricted by tension. It will also improve reflex time, as you do not have to fight against held tension in order to respond.

When you release physical tension, it also has the effect of releasing mental stress too.

To say "ultimately relaxing the muscles, but nothing further than that" is to grossly misundersand what is going on.

That high and mighty attitude really isn't endearing.
I would suggest maybe exploring some other taijiquan styles, away from Temple style - just to give you some exposure to some of the things you are shouting down.

It might just open your eyes.

 

This was his response to you:

"Even though you don't possess any real understanding of the art you practice, it's not your fault. You're like most people."

You can also take a quick look at his posting history and it'll show a lot of similar remarks.

I think that if he going posts such disrespectful nonsense in such an arrogant manner then it's only fair to give him a hard time.