Tai Chi and weed

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by slomojo, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I think people should be able to choose what they put in THEIR body.

    I read an article about weed. It described how it opened you mind, making all senses more vivid. Apparantly this is why many people claim to have spiritual experiences.

    Could be to Tai chi people what steroids are for the meat heads! :D
  2. scorpiousmac

    scorpiousmac Valued Member

    Sounds like sour grapes to me.Did it really take you five years to find out you didn't enjoy it? Back to the point though,went into class stoned once and whilst doing star jumps ended up bouncing all over the place.Drugs and MA'S don't mix. :eek:
  3. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    I agree with that, in order for humans to become responsible for all their actions they need to be responsible for themselves first, and I don’t think one can gain such responsibility while living in a nanny state which dictates to the extreme, what one may or may not do. I believe if one is morally upright and genuine than one does not require the government to make up the parameters of one’s life. However, in order for one to be morally upright and genuine one needs to know him/her self, and Tai Chi is a good medium for self exploration.

    In my opinion weed is not as harmful as alcohol, even in spite recent research that suggests that adolescents with certain genetics predispositions are susceptible to developing psychosis if they become 'weed' users. I think if weed was legal it would merely need the same or stricter age restrictions as does alcohol. But, I think if all parents were of morally upright and genuine character, restrictions may not even be necessary, though I don’t think society will reach such a level any time soon.

    I think the people that drugs of any kind have a negative, i.e. addictive, detrimental effect on, are those whose minds are weak and scattered, these are the sort of individuals who need to study themselves.

    When one learns one’s true nature, the falsities of oneself and others become obsolete. Hence, the pitfalls of addiction, which in my experience is merely attachment and desire are no longer a problem. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the majority of mans problems stem from attachment. When one is attached to anything physically, mentally or both, the loss of such stirs negative emotion, the root of these being fear of loss. But, when one truly knows one’s nature, one has no fear, because one is not attached. It is a battle within oneself, and if one gains the upper hand in this war, drugs and any other vice is easy to banish.

    Now, I would think that by saying that one has no attachment people are going to think that in such an instance one would not care about others, i.e. family, people, environment. But in my experience, this is quite the opposite, one becomes more caring towards one self, others and their surroundings. I am not too sure why this is so, but, I guess when one feels the freedom one gains when one is free from fear, i.e. attachment, one becomes free of the negative effects of one’s ego, which is responsible for putting oneself before others. Thus, when one removes the negative effects of one’s ego, one removes that which separates oneself from the truth, i.e. integrates with it. A quote from the Tao Teh Ching probably sums it up best:

    When the way of nature is observed,
    all things serve their function;
    horses drawing carts, and pulling at the plough.
    But when the natural way is not observed,
    horses are bred for battle and for war.
    Desire and wanting cause discontent,
    whilst he who knows sufficiency
    more easily has what he requires.

    Conclusively, I believe that there is no point in trying to remove all the negative influences from the world. It is better to remove the negative influences from oneself, thus bringing positive influence to all, in turn nullifying the effects of any negative influence on oneself, and helping others to do the same. In other words, the issue is not drugs, the issue the correct molding of one self.
  4. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Pgm316 and Inthespirit - I'm not sure the question here is whether people have the right to take drugs, or whether they are harmful to them. Instead, the question is do drugs and taiji mix? As I've already said, personally I think the answer is a very firm no - but others have every right to make their own minds up.

    I should point out that I don't necessarily distinguish between legal and illegal 'recreational drugs' in this statement. In fact, I'm quite curious to know - do peoples views on practising taiji under the influence of alcohol differ from their views on practising under the influence of cannabis?
  5. zanflad

    zanflad Banned Banned

    how do you know that all those taoists up in the wudang were not on all sorts of drugs mushrooms etc.

    what else were they doing in the mountains
  6. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    I think this is in part dependant on the person.

    If one is addicted/attached to drugs , one will not reap any benefits from practising Tai Chi while high or any other activity, primarily because one’s mind in connection with Tai Chi and weed would be in a subjective state.

    Whereas, if one is not addicted/attached to drugs, one could potentially perceive something beneficial during the practice of Tai Chi or any other activity, that one would not be aware of in a normal state. Though, since one does not carry any addiction/attachment to such experiences it would be more along the lines of an experiment, possibly an objective one, but only if the individual was so finely tuned that he/she could control oneself to such a degree as not to let the drug influence one’s perception. But, there is a danger one may perceive the false to be real, and vice versa as one would not be in a pure/natural state of mind.

    I would say that there are too many variables to answer this question absolutely. Some people may and some people may not get positive benefits. But, I would say the probability of the experience being negative is greater than that of it being positive, if we consider that the individual in question would be randomly picked out of a very random sample. I think very few individuals on this planet have such a high degree of control over themselves that would enable them to carry out such an experiment objectively. So, I if a random person, who I knew nothing about, came up to me and asked me “Should I try practicing Tai Chi while I am stoned?”. I would answer no.

    I have read references in a book by ‘Da Liu’, of sages being on magic mushrooms, but unless someone who was a sage and I recognized him/her as such, came along and told me that they do drugs for what ever positive benefit, I would not accept it to be of any relevance.
  7. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Agreed, however the thread was going that way. And it reminded my of some real fat guy having a cig and beer while saying; "Dem G'damn durug hadics 'll ruin thur lyves wid dat filty k'rap" Pot & kettle :confused:

    The previous article I read which said weed opened the mind making experiences more vivid also said alcohol had the opposite effect, dulling the mind. Although I've never done Tai Chi under the influence of ANY drugs so I can't comment on either first hand....
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2005
  8. zanflad

    zanflad Banned Banned

    The Taoists of ancient China seem to have made use of the fly-agaric mushroom, and often make reference to the 'Divine Mushroom of Immortality', an epithet used by Wasson in his book. The writings of ancient China are replete with many other references to psychoactive fungi and there is even a work called On the Planting and Cultivation of Magic Mushrooms. According to the account of Thao Hung-Ching, writing in AD 515, a respected young Taoist of the time named Chou Tzu-Liang died at the age of only twenty, apparently as the result of ingesting toxic fungi. There are frescoes decorating the Koguryo tombs of Korea (sixth and seventh centuries AD) that depict Taoist Immortals and their female consorts, known as Jade Girls, picking 'magic mushrooms'. Fu-ling, a parasitic fungus that grows on the roots of the pine tree – Polyporus cocos or Poria (Pachyma) cocos is also considered to be an 'immortal medicine' in Chinese tradition. The Chinese Buddhist text called the Tripitaka (Ta Tsang) contains an account of a sage taking refuge in the mountains in order to meditate and consume mushroom elixirs. Yet, it would be simplistic to think that the Chinese attitude to psychoactive mushrooms was universally favourable. Wasson cites a twelfth-century Chinese official who berated the followers of the Manichaean religion (founded by the Iranian Mani, but once of some influence in parts of China largely through the efforts of Iranian and Central Asian travelling merchants) for consuming mushrooms as part of their religious observances. Wasson interprets this as an attack on the use of the fly-agaric as the same official states that the Manichaeans also ritually washed with urine.

  9. daftyman

    daftyman A 4oz can of whoop-ass!

    Taiji is all about feeling. Feeling things in yourself, or feelings from your partner during two person practice. Anything that gets in the way of a cristal clear view is a bad thing. You're just making it harder on yourself.

    I won't practice stoned (as I don't partake of that stuff anymore), but neither would I practice drunk. By this I mean serious practice. I could fanny about whilst under the affluence of incohol, but I'm not studying or deepening my understanding.

    You need clarity to practice good taiji. If you need a chemical crutch to gain that clarity then you need to work out why you need the crutch, then maybe you can work to get rid of it.
  10. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Thats some interesting info, thanks for sharing.. like the sig..
  11. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Just wanted to add. Marijuana like most plants, has an impact on the human energetic system. So, if an already physically and/or mentally unbalanced individual were to take such a drug, it could potentially have an effect of rebalancing some aspect of his/her energetic system. Thus, providing them with a momentary “crystal clear” perception, which could help resolve the root of the imbalance.

    Alternatively, it could make the individual even more unbalanced, I think this is what happens with “weed psychosis”. I.e. An already unbalanced individual, further unbalances him/her self with drugs.

    An interesting point is, that some psychosis is treated by dopamine suppressing drugs. dopamine is a chemical which provides an excited/positive feeling in the brain, I.e. your walking along, you see a person that resembles an old friend, you get excited – the excitement and positive mental connection is in part the work of dopamine. The suppressants work to stop the brain of a psychosis suffering person getting excited over irrational connections and furthering him/her self from reality. Marijuana is a dopamine exciter, in other words it increases dopamine uptake in the brain, resulting in more exciting connections, rational or irrational, being made. Thus, people with psychosis usually become more psychotic under the influence of marijuana. However, if someone is dopamine deficient, the increase of dopamine, may temporarily provide a window through which one may relieve whatever depression or problem that is affecting the person, and in that brief period, adjust ones mind for a more positive and balanced existence in the future, after the cessation of the drugs effects.
  12. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Inthespirit - I get what you're saying. I guess there is a difference between experimenting and regular practise. It's the latter that I really don't think is beneficial - just my personal opinion.

    VR - nice post - I agree completely. Incidentally - have you noticed how 'fair maidens hand' is perfect for holding your pint? Personally I think it's a sign :D

    Zanflad - some interesting info on 'Taoist sages' (TB will no doubt tell you there's no such thing :D) but for me that's not really relevant. I see taiji as a martial art that has probably evolved over the centuries, and I can't really imagine too many martial artists honing there skills whilst munching on mushrooms. (Although it may explain one or two lineage claims.....)
  13. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Dopamine overactivity is not the root cause of psychosis. It is a mediating step on the way. Marijuana acts on endogenous cannabinoid receptors, not primarily dopamine receptors, although has secondary effects on a wide range of neurotransmitter systems. It is not a benign drug at all, and has limited therapeutic value.

    At the end of the day - you take a mind altering substance - your mind will alter. And not in a predictable way.
  14. Sheyja

    Sheyja Valued Member

    Smoking weed quiets your mind and makes you feel more of a connection to your body. Which gives off the feeling that lots of people search for, but ultimately, it's a distraction from how they feel without the weed, and it's that that needs to be worked upon.
  15. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    What is the root cause of psychosis?
  16. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    It seems to be used a lot for medicinal purposes. Even in some American states they'll allow its use for that purpose.
  17. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    Think of marijuana as something that is balancing on a tip of a knive. If used when injured or ill, it probably can help aid your recovery (keep you eating, reduce pain)... however if overused, it causes

    1. allergies
    2. smoke-(cigerettes as well), causes the memory loss
    3. slower reactions
    4. money loss, its expensive.

    the whole "its illegal" bit, is rather a bad argument. since many peoples morals are different as well as religious or cultural practices.

    why is it legal to take prescribtion drugs that kill more then marijuana, are given to kids legally and illegally, and have worse side effects?

    The reason why it can aid tai chi (meditation of any sort), is probably due to the ability to slow someones brain down, (even if its being more creative-stimulated), slow thier reactions down, and put them in a sleepy state.

    it doesn't mix well with wing chun practice, but it can with meditation. Bruce lee use to consume it in food...

    anywho.... whats important out of this?
    1.don't pick on other peoples morals/beliefs
    2.if you only can meditate via weed, you are not learning to meditate at all.
    3. if you only can meditate while high, you are not learning how to meditate
    4. prescribtion drugs are more abused and abusive and more deadly:)

    if it aids you a few times, that is not bad. if you depend on it to teach you or give you meditations, then it is bad. again, remeber some people that are hyper, find it useful for meditating. some people find vicadin useful (legal) for pain killing, even if it has a large illegal trade, high child useage rates ect.
  18. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Ahh, slip, always the voice of reason... we seem to be on the same side a,lot lately...


    God, you really sound ridiculous, you know that?

    All these flower-child-blessed-wanna-be agruments are a moot point. Marijuana is illegal in the states, period. Get off your moral high horse.
  19. zanflad

    zanflad Banned Banned

    how can a plant be illegal ?

    what are you going to do, arrest god for creating illegal plants ?
  20. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Your sig says it all.

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