TAGB or ITF?

Gould

Are you connected to Martyn Dipper's or Ian Gage's School??

 

So why was Ko-Dang dropped and Juche added?
Because from talking with certain people I've heard some quite.... Interesting things.

Anyone got any opinions?

 

according to most people it was introduced tpo replace ko-dang as a means to keep students from progressing too quickly . Another is that it was forced on Gen choi by DPRK i beleive mysef it was a method of slowing progreess by introducing a patetrn with a two direction one of tkds most dificult techniques at secind dan.

 

Juche is named after the North Korean philosophy of self determination. Ko-Dang is named after a (South) Korean patriot.

It's my opinion that General Choi was trying to reach out to the North and unite the Koreas through TaeKwon-Do, dropping one and creating the other. Politics made things worse. (No political discussions now--that's just my opinion.)

 

For those interested about Juche vs. Ko-Dang, here's an interesting text to read:

Juche vs. Ko-dang

 

By now you should have got our subtle hint that you should check out and compare the 2 clubs for yourself (but not judge an entire organisation on a club).

Its all about what suits you. If you want to be able to do the flashy kicks then practise the flashy kicks - a good instructor will allow you to train this element, but still not enforce it upon the whole school. I'd doubt you'd find many place teaching such moves as they are quite competition unfriendly. Therefore you will need to put some personal trianing into achieving them. a large back garden helps this. And dont forget you have to be pretty damn close to perfect with a technique before you start throwing it in mid-air. It will take time before you are able to throw a move more than 2 feet above the ground.

Sine-wave and hiptwist are 2 different approaches to reaching the same goal. Sometimes you can work a compromise between the 2 (wedging block for example applies this well). Its all up to which movement suits your "feel" better.

Oh yeah, and the TAGB have better comeptitions

 

A couple years ago when I came out of the army I looked around for TKD clubs in my area. There was a TAGB club and an ITF (UKTA) club, both of which had instructors of the same grade and a similar number of students.

The TAGB club had a better standard of students and more variety, but that was to do more with the personal experience of the instructor than the syllabus itself.

I attended both clubs simultaneously until about green belt level, and I'll tell you why I chose the TAGB over the ITF.

I had a very bad experience at a grading with the UKTA. To give you a quick bit of background info, the UKTA demands that its students attend a minimum of 2 seminars a year, otherwise they can't grade. At this grading in particular, we were told in no uncertain terms we didn't have to do the seminar. So we turned up for the grading and got a total b*llocking for not doing the seminar. Also, we had to take our grading cards because our ITF instructor said he wanted to watch the football match. So we got another b*llocking because our instructor wasn't there, and another b*llocking because we weren't supposed to see our grading cards (which, by the way, we didn't: they were in a sealed brown envelope, but the grading examiner seemed to want to make examples out of all of us). All of these b*llockings were in front of about 150 other students.

There were three of us that went, and as the lowest grade I went first. I had a broken hand at the time so I couldn't do press-ups on my knuckles, and did them on my palms instead. Despite my hand being bandaged to the size of a house brick, the examiner gave me a b*llocking for not doing them on my knuckles. He said I needed to look closer at the tenet called "Indomitable Spirit." Like I'm sure he could do knuckle press-ups with four fractured metacarpel bones...

He then told me off for rising and dropping my weight to add power to my punches when we were in sitting stance. He said I shouldn't be doing that until I was "a higher grade." Erm... ex-squeeze me?

When it came to the theory, his reasons for having a go at me got to the point of lunacy. When asked for the meaning of Tae Kwon Do, I gave the textbook reply "Tae means foot..." etc. The full meaning, word-for-word perfect. He then said, "Does it really?" I replied, "Yes, sir." He then told me to look it up and tell him the correct meaning at the next grading. He then repeated the b*llocking he gave me at the start, saying he was lucky I didn't fail because I missed the seminar. I felt like reminding him of the association's rules that we had a choice of which seminar to attend, and I still had another 4 throughout the year to choose from. But, that would be disrespectful.

But it gets worse...

My mate went for his red-stripe grading and had to do a turning kick break on both feet. He broke successfully with his right leg, but failed his first attempt on his left leg. He was then told to sit down, despite the association text book saying students are allowed two attempts on both sides. Then, the examiner's own student got up to break. This girl was quite awful - after 12 unsuccessful attempts (I counted them) to break on her right leg, the examiner got out of his chair and broke for her!!! He did this for the next three students who got up, who we learned later on were from his own club!

I passed my grading so I didn't care much about the b*llockings, but at the next lesson, the three of us that graded were lectured in front of the entire class by the instructor about how we weren't supposed to miss the seminar! I mean, this guy told us himself we didn't have to do it! And he told us off for going by ourselves, yet he said he couldn't make it because he wanted to watch the football... er, what??!!! As soon as his lecture was over, I threw my belt on the floor, walked out and have never looked back.

I have found nothing but fairness and equality in the TAGB. It was for reasons similar to the behaviour I've described above that the TAGB broke away from the ITF.

It's your call, but from my personal experience, I would go with the TAGB all the way.

(I've had similar experiences with WTF organisations, and the TAGB is truly the first non-political governing body I've come across.)

(Oh, and they have possibly one of the greatest tournament squads in the world. Go to squad training if you want to see some flashy stuff!)

 

There are subtle difference sbetween the two federations, but generally, it's the instructor you want to look at.
In my experience, the TAGB are becoming a bit of a money-making machine, and have lost the excellent competition sparring that they used to have. I trained in the same gym as a local TAGB instructor and he was a sight to behold when he went to work on the bag, but even he says the tournaments just aren't the same anymore, and is starting to shift towards kickboxing.
That said, I'm sure there are many out there with a similar experience of ITF. Or WTF. Or AIMAA. Or AMA. Or UKTA.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is Federation doesn't matter - If you are happy with what is being taught, and you get on with the instructor, then that's the class for you.

On a technical note - A traditional ITF club will require breaking at gradings from green belt, whereas the TAGB only ask from black belt on. Also, the patterns are slightly different, and the set sparring is completely different. Other than that, they are pretty much of a muchness....

 

Hard debate here ive seen great TAGB instructors and students ive seen great ITF Instructors and students from my experience TAGB emphasises the sport side of TKD whereas my time in the ITF focused on the Martial Art first and competition as a by product

 

I have been in both organisations and to be honest I don't rate eithers policies or bigotry.

With the TAGB it's all about making as much money as possible. My instructor at the time was Martyn Dipper. He made us do 100 kicks with each leg whilst sitting the corner of the class sending text messages and never checked our technique once........that really hacked me off. You have to buy their products and they change the syllabus how they see fit which is dangerous to splitting the style further. Like the UKTA its just a sport with little or no emphasis on real situations.

With UKTA the instruction from seniors borders on verbal abuse, My instructor Master Miller was one of the worst for this. You get abused at the class and you get more at the seminars that you are forced to attend. I have heard them slag other styles during class and seminars particularly karate, which if my memory serves correct Gen. Choi plagerised his style from. Like the TAGB its just a sport with little or no emphasis on real situations.

I can't speak for WTF.

I have now switched to karate and their open door policy between clubs is great. Their technical ability and instruction is great and the training for real situation is always evident and not something that you have to wait for a seminar to learn.

 

I've trained across the country in TAGB and it varies A LOT. Am I right that ITF patterns are all done at the same speed? Sounds crazy but according to some people its true.

 

No, they're not

 

* Different instructors will teach differently. So there will be some variation, althought the core syllabus will be taught in much the same way

* There are different movement types, which have different speeds. Fast, normal, slow, continuous, connective. Have a look here for an explanation of each movement type.

 

You do realise that report starts with:
"Amidst the 2,000 hand techniques, 1,200 kicking techniques..."

Hmmm, I've had a quick tot up of what I know at 3rd Dan and I'm WAY short!

Looks like I've a few hard years ahead, can anyone send me a list so I can keep track?

Rob

 

Lol, even the core syllabus seems to change. Lots of 1st dans dont even do takedowns for their 2nd dan.

 

Start with a poke in the eye. One per finger/thumb. That's 10 techniques. 20 if you include the other eye.

I did see that, but disregarded it. However the movement/motion types are what I was drawing the attention to.

But the core syllabus will be taught in much the same way. The patterns, the pre-arranged sparring (1, 2 and 3 step) and the free sparring will be taught in a broadly similar way.

Although takedowns are a part of TKD, they aren't widely taught as part of the core syllabus. I'm not trying to defend that decision, just pointing it out.

 

I just went through 1st dan patterns with an ITF person. They're all done completely different. The hand movements and the changes of stance finish at the same time. It looks cool, just really strange to see patterns done in a really different way.
TAGB love the hip twist

 

And what?? Isn't that what the threads are on here for?