Taekwondo similar or not to Kyokushin karate?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Zatoichi1, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. Zatoichi1

    Zatoichi1 New Member

    I know what you all are thinking but just hear me out. I'm a Taekwondo fanatic and was just wondering if there are any of you that think that Kyokushin can be combined to make a more superior art. All feedback is welcome.:):)
  2. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    There are plenty of similarities. If anything, they're similar to the point where training both wouldn't be as much a "combination" as training in two variations on the same theme.

    I think what I'm getting at is that, if you "combine" taekwondo and karate, all you get is karate with more kicking or taekwondo without more body punches and no silly sine wave bouncing.

    It's up to you if you think that's something you want to develop. Doesn't sound like a bad thing, I guess. I'd imagine a few years in kyokushin would make you one tough-ass taekwondo person.
  3. Critical Bill

    Critical Bill Valued Member

    Two predominantly striking arts? Without knowing much about kyo karate, what do you think the differences are apart from rulesets - what could each add to the other?

    My gut feeling is not much, but I've had no contact with karate.

    Edit - or more eloquently put, as above!
  4. Toki_Nakayama

    Toki_Nakayama Valued Member

    lot of similarities in the two.

    "Kyeeoookerkusheen?...Japwernese? ....No! Dey Kick Ugerleee!" <<------ one of our crazy GMs
  5. Toki_Nakayama

    Toki_Nakayama Valued Member

    lot of similarities in the two.

    "Kyeeoookerkusheen?...Japwernese? ....No! Dey Kick Ugerleee!" <<------ one of our crazy GMs
  6. SenseiMattKlein

    SenseiMattKlein Engage, Maverick

    There is no such thing as a "superior art". There are superior martial artists and superior martial arts instructors. I am going to suggest you combine your Kyokushin karate, which I believe is almost entirely stand-up, with Brazilian Jujitsu or Judo. This will make you a more complete fighter, as you never know when the fight will go to the ground.
  7. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    If you're a Kyokushin karateka looking for better kicks, just practice kicking more. If you're a Tae Kwon Do guy looking for better punches, box.
  8. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    From what I've observed Kyokushin guys have really good kicks (good head round kicks) and low kicks definitely. Kyokushin sparring is very physically demanding. But because of the ruleset (body punching) the distancing is very different from something like ITF TKD or Shotokan. Kudo seems to be a better fit for applying TKD to a less restricted ruleset form of sparring.
  9. Cait

    Cait da Bionic is BACK!

    As has been said, they're pretty similar. Try combining one or the other with a ground-fighting or throwing discipline, you'll have a lot more luck.
  10. lord-humungous

    lord-humungous Valued Member

    Here's what I see that is similar to the ITF style that I train in:
    - continuous sparring
    Here's what is different:
    - ITF allows punches to the head/kyo does not
    - Kyo has all kinds of body conditioning (hardening excercises), my school has very little in comparison (I think most Kyokushin dojos train conditioning in every class)
    - Kyo allows kicks to the thigh, ITF sparring rules keep it all above the belt
  11. Zatoichi1

    Zatoichi1 New Member

    TKD similar....

    I guess I should have been clearer on the subject. Thank you all for your input, Now that I think about it i'm looking to combine the conditioning and low kicking to the art. I think that this will make it a more devastating art as far as self defense goes. Also someone mentioned that I should combine BJJ to my art to be more well rounded. Well we do do some grappling but it is geared toward joint manipulation than all out JJ. I guess I just get tired of hearing people talk badly about TKD and how it is not self defense worthy. So I as a third degree in WTF, I am working on my own additions to the art to make it more effective for me, not that it is'nt already. But I want more basic defense(kicking, punching, grappling if needed.) you see not everyone can gauge out eyes or break limbs in a real fight so I want to give my style a "what you see is what you get type of art. And indeed it will be up to the practitioner to make it work for them like all other arts, but it will be more simplistic, so alot more dedication and practice will be needed.
  12. blindgod

    blindgod Valued Member

    I was always under the impression that low kicks were very much a part of the overall system of taekwondo. However, since people often didn't practice them in training (other than forms) or sparring, there came to be this accepted truth that taekwondo didn't include low kicks (or high punches, or elbows, or knees...).

    Therefore, I think that what you're proposing is not so much combining TKD with Kyokushin, but rather training and sparring with a fuller range of techniques that are already found in TKD.
  13. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Kyokushin Karate is heavily influence by Muay Thai so a better idea would be to train in Muay Thai plus TKD in my opinion.
    Some people claim TKD and Kyokushin Karate are basicaly the same or similar but only the karate side is. When Mass Oyamas fighters were beaten by the Thais he sent his fighters to train with them and then they brought back the training methods and techniques they learnt and incorporated them into their training. This side is not similar to TKD.

    TKD contains linear low kicks like low front,or side. or stamping or pressing kicks yet there is not a specific low round kick. The TKD view is that you just kick low using the TKD round kick.
    Knees,elbows and punches are also contained in TKD. Yet its not very deep or varied nor are the training methods for these. Also most dont incorporate them into sparring or padwork. Those that do just dont do it very well or as good as is done in Muay thai. So why mess about? Go to the proffesionals and incorporate Muay thai.
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Another difference is the clinch...which is really strong with the MT. I don't believe I've seen it employed in Kyokushin much...

    The thing I'd add is that it would be great to create the perfect style where all ranges are mastered. But the fact is even professional fighters who have a lot more time than your average practitioner can't do this. There are some who come close and then they are hailed as 'once in a generation fighters' (rightly so). So a core skillset that excludes some really good stuff is not a 'bad thing'. A practitioner, however, should be aware of other stuff and try to get as much knowledge of it as can be practically fit into the training regimen...it just probably won't be expert proficiency in those areas...
  15. Kuto

    Kuto Vacuumed Member

    I think it could be a good idea to crosstrain in Kyokoshin when it comes to the issue of distance.
    I don't really have a clue because I only trained in TKD and Shotokan but as far as I know (which means what I have seen in videos so far) they stand much closer as TKD players do, which, I guess, also is the case in a Goju Ryu Iri Kumi.
    I've been wondering what it's like to spar like that cause I only know this 'in and out game'.
    It may also be closed to a real SD situation, but that's only a guess.
    You probably won't find a TKD school that even comes near to the conditioning of a Kyokoshin school (and you won't find any TKD players that would like to train like that either, I'm afraid), but training in any style of Karate only would restrict the variety of kicks actually used, so all in all there may be other or even better choises when it comes to a combination with Kukki TKD, but I think combining it whit Kyokoshin isn't bad at all.
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I started in TKD and when I went onto Shidokan (Kyok offshoot) I got kicked in the legs a LOT.
    Then when I went back to TKD I got punched in the head a LOT.

    Now I do both and so get punched in the head in TKD and kicked in the legs in Shido.
    It's cross training of a sort. :)
  17. 6footgeek

    6footgeek Meow

    taek is a lot of medium to long range sparring. Kyo is a lot of close range sparring with shoulders getting squared. If you want to get a better balanced striking game take kyokushin. or if you wanna get some grappling experience get some judo.
  18. Too Defensive

    Too Defensive Valued Member

    No. You will have to change everything you have learned in TKD once you take MT. The two are apples and oranges.

    A better fit is TKD and Shotokan. Or even boxing. But Shotokan is the best choice
  19. RagingDelirium

    RagingDelirium Valued Member

    WTF & SHOTOKAN sound like a good mix
  20. Bronze Statue

    Bronze Statue Valued Member

    I never understand this fascination with "combining arts" or "a superior art". Why not instead "extend your martial arts experiences", and see where it takes you?

    In this thread I've seen people bandy around the names of several arts (karate [Kyokushin and Shotokan], muay Thai, boxing, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and judo). If you truly have access to them all in your area, why not sample them all and see what you like and what fits your schedule/budget? (If there is "a more superior art", you will of course have to be there to practice it to gain anything!)

    IMHO too many people focus too much on "combining arts" for its own sake. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I just don't see what's inherently so "superior" about a Taekwondo'er adding, say, Yantsu or Wankan to his/her Taekwondo syllabus, or about a Muay'er replacing his/her art's Mae Mai techniques with techniques from Taekwondo or Kyokushin one-steps, or about a boxer replacing his/her boxing footwork with Shotokan karate footwork, and so on.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011

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