Taekwondo - Paradise Lost...

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Smokemare, May 18, 2007.

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  1. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    Some of you may remember me, I've been absent for a long time. Not just from the forum, but from Martial Arts in General. I can't really explain how I feel about Taekwondo now... It's kind of wierd... One minute I was training hard, aiming to take my 3rd Dan at some point, also going to Kung Fu lessons once a week... I broke a meta-carpal and ended up having to stop training for a few weeks, by the time my hand was right, I had to start work building my house and I didn't have any spare tim eor energy to train, now the house is nearly finished, but I'm going to be a dad in a few weeks time...

    So I still can't train at the moment, nor will I be able to for some time... So what?

    Well, I actually loathe the idea of training again. I'm not sure how I came to feel this way, but I hate the idea of going back to training... In anything... Partly I think because I over-analysed the point of Taekwondo and the only conclusion I could come up with was that there was no point.

    What makes a person 'good' at taekwondo? What are taekwondo grades?

    This chain of thought led me to the idea that Taekwondo IS an art. As an art , what constitutes 'good' taewondo is entirely subjective. Whether a technique is done well is largely down to whether somebody more senior than you says it's being done well... Sparring is different, destruction is different, you compete and you score points and you win or lose - competition patterns though... Again it's entirely down to the opinions of the judges...

    I used to referee and judge patterns competitions on a regular basis, back in the day as it were, and peoples opinions really do differ!

    So what is a grade? I think it's two things, it's a badge of loyalty, that you get once you've been doing something to a certain level for a certain length of time. However that badge is only awarded to you if you can demostrate a degree of skill and aesthetic performance according to the opinion of the senior black belt who grades you!?

    Some people take their organisation grading, then they take the internationl ITF Grading (At higher Dan's) In front of Choi Jung Hwa... Some people pass one, then fail the other?

    Is Taekwondo a good form of self-defence? Is that sufficient reason to 'do' taekwondo? Is any martial art 'good' self-defence? I say no, probably not... You're probably better off knowing than not knowing, but the best self-defence is always to flee, or relinquish your wallet...

    Now the thing is as you can guess, Taekwondo was a massive part of my life for a long time. I started at about 14, and trained off and on for about 14 years! I really WANT to look forward to being able to go back... I sort of want to train again, but at the same time the idea of doing that really makes my sick...

    Whether it's because the people have changed so much or I've changed or both - I dunno... I just miss training - but at the same I can't stand the thought of going back to training...

    And it's not about 'realism' as a fighting art of taekwondo, the Kung Fu class I joined was very nearly FC in sparring, but I want to do that even less... Even though I think the particular class had more SD and general fighting ability benefits.

    Sorry if this seems a bit negative - I just really wanted to get this off my chest... It keeps coming back and bugging me....
     
  2. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    Only advice to you is go back, train and see how you feel.

    Sometimes i feel like that, i cant be arsed with it and the whole thought of a hard training session and getting kicked in the gut isnt so appealing. But you know, once you get there, once your warming up, talking to people, once your actually training im always glad i went.
     
  3. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I'm a 4th dan. I've been training since I was 10 and I'm 36 now. I had some breaks in-between while I played sports and pursued other goals. So I know where you are coming from.

    As we go thorugh life stages our training goals and the rationale behind our training must also adapt if we are going to stay with it. You say, "What is the point of training?" We could bring up the self-defense aspect...but lets face it. All of us are rarely ever attacked. Even if a martial art was a surefire way to protect oneself from any nasty situation that could occur (like it is often portrayed in the movies) it STILL would not make sense. Why? Because you spend all these hours and hours training while others are sipping coffee with their friends at the latest trendy spot and it is very, very, likely that you will never need to use it.

    So why train? The only viable answer is because you LOVE it. It makes you feel good. It relieves stress. Etc, etc, etc. You know I trained with some MMA types last weekend and one of them looks at me and suddenly laughs and says, "Check this guy out! An hour in and he is still grinning from ear to ear. You'd think this was the best day of his life..."

    I think your primary problem is that you are overthinking this stuff to much. Don't worry about all grading stuff, the pattern judging, etc, etc. That is all just extras to the core reason of why we do this stuff. We do it because it fills some need we have. I love doing the hyungs, btw. Great active meditations. I could start all stressed out and by the time I'm through my top form I'm feeling pretty zenlike.

    ;)
     
  4. KMA

    KMA Valued Member

    Happiness

    If you don't look forward to training and it's not bringing you happiness, then don't train. You might just need a break from it for a while. If you feel TKD is good, but want to try something different go for it. The best advice I would like to offer you is do what brings you and your family joy.
     
  5. TKDjoe

    TKDjoe Valued Member

    Great post, I might add that all our priorities change through out life. If you continue on with TKD you will be training for a different reason than you did ten years ago and if you train another ten years your motivation will probably change again. I think that's a good thing, change is a great way to keep one interested. It sounds to me like you want to train but can't find a reason or motivation to. If it's that difficult for you than just do something else or maybe start teaching.
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Times change, people change; do what feels right. TKD hasn't changed but maybe your interests have?

    You don't say precisely what is putting you off going back to training, other than general inertia, ennui?

    Do you feel you burnt out? Do you just have no interest in MA? Are other things just more important?

    I don't agree with your analysis of TKD, but I'm not sure you want to debate that?

    If you're looking for some "point" in training beyond enjoyment, I wish you luck. Philosophers, scientists and the religious amongst us have been searching for the point of things for longer even Aaron Mag has been training ;)

    Best wishes to you and I hope everything goes well with the impending addition to your family :D

    Mitch
     
  7. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    Thanks! That was actually a very reasonable, pragmatic, and uplifting response! 10 points!

    Thanks for all the responses... I think he is right, my analysis of taekwondo is correct in my opinion - but we're all entitled to our opinions? Maybe it shouldn't matter... Really if you think about it one thing your grade does dictate, is the weight of your opinion. As a 2nd Dan with limited experience of other arts - my opinion used to be fairly well respected I think...

    Maybe I'll go see the old crazy gang one night and say hello... Then when I've finished the house nad got through the first few weeks of newbaby excitement I'll be able to face trying it again...

    Thanks, for not taking this out of context... I think my thoughts on this topic - as over-analysed as they are... I think some people find them challenging... It crossed my mind that when I was discussing this prior to being forced to leave with some students... Some of them quit... Dan grades too - it's not something I'm proud of, the only thing I would say is that the ones that stayed on possibly trained with a clearer sense of purpose.

    Again it might have been coincidence and my ego telling me things that I wanted to hear... In fact that would be for the best I think...

    Still...

    Anyway... I probably said this a long time ago - but despite the occasional bickering about pointless issues such as Art vs Art, WTF vs ITF etc... The usual ones - this is a really great forum... There are some good heads here, with both a degree of sense, and compassion.
     
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I get the feeling of a back story we're not privy to here.

    In any case, I hope you find a form of training you enjoy.

    Mitch
     
  9. Sackett

    Sackett Valued Member

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I came to TKD much later in life so can't entirely relate, but appreciate the perspective.

    My only thought to add is the importance of not feeling guilty if you do decide to move on. Life is SO different after the little people come along. My priorities really did change, especially for the first 5 years.

    So if it's the right thing to do, shift your focus and be okay.

    But I did find it was important to do something for myself and for my body even when I wasn't sleeping or covering the other basics. :) Running was good.
     
  10. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Man you got that right! No one should feel guilty. I face this all the time when I run into old students/workout partners. Sometimes they try to avoid you. Then they blurt out the old, "I'm coming back! I just got busy!"

    I don't think there is a martial artist out there who is gifted with at least some introspection that doesn't wonder if the guy who quit is the one doing the right thing by pursuing other goals. :)

    No reason to feel guilty about priorities changing in your life. In fact that IS life!!!
     
  11. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member

    first of all, welcome back.

    is it possible that you don't know what's bothering you?
     
  12. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan


    Possibly... I'm fundamentally flawed in that respect. Something is aways wrong, and I'm never 100% sure what it is.... At the moment I'm not too concerned about general fitness falling... I work all day in a physical job, then I work a few hours every night and most of the weeked building - which is also physical.

    I think my CV and flexibility has suffered alot... But I can always try and fix that later if the need arises I suppose.
     
  13. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member

    so has anything changed since the time you started this thread?
     
  14. TeaKD

    TeaKD New Member

    Is it possible you're looking around yourself and not concentrating on what's inside? (Zen again.....) Do it for your own enjoyment, if that makes sense. Maybe you need to put some time aside for yourself.

    Starting back at training will give you some 'you time' back and regain your CV and flexibility, you'll find the benefit of even an hour or two a week.

    Sure enough, it may not be the right time to do it with a baby on the way / work / building but going back will I'm sure won't cause you any regret it if you can get over the inertia of getting your kit on and getting back to the dojang.

    Good luck and even if you don't start back tomorrow I still hope you start back sometime, just for yourself if nothing else.

    :)
     
  15. buck65

    buck65 New Member

    I agree with the above, maybe a class or 2 a week just to keep in touch with your fitness and flexibility and you might find yourself enjoying it and get back into the sparring etc.
    Maybe part of it is because of your rank people will be looking up to you and expecting great things when your not in the shape or form you have been in before.
    I train maybe 3/4 nights on a good week (2 TKD classes, a run and some gym work on another night) while I'm very busy at work, newly married. But I feel that if I even get out once or twice a week I feel great.
     
  16. Jambo

    Jambo New Member

    The Tenets of Taekwondo Are:

    Courtesy
    Integrity
    Perseverance
    Self-Control
    Indomitable Spirit.

    You are not exhibiting these and are looking for random nameless people on an Internet Martial Arts forum to tell you that it's OK to give up.
     
  17. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    Don't get me started on the tenets. I wasn't looking for people to tell me to give up! I was looking for a different perspective which I found...

    I am extremely well versed in the tenets, and have through adversities during my training career as well as my 'life' in general exhibited all these attributes. This has nothing to do with abanding the tenets. Personally I think the tenets are pointless, as they are all basic aspects of what makes a 'good' person anyway, only they are simplified somewhat and detract from the aspiration to be a good person. Being a generally 'good' person isn't about follwing some mystical rules set out by Choi Hong Hi in the 1950's or even following the Hwa Rang Do with all that nonsense about making a just kill in battle and stuff...

    Do you live by the tenets?

    I would say not, responding to a carefully worded, respectful post about minor qualms with training in general by accusing me of not exhibiting the tenets?

    Can a moderator please close this thread - it's served it's beneficial purpose and I feel it can only go downhill from here. I refuse to get drawn into a purile flame war, while being drawn way, way off topic...
     
  18. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member

    the original poster asked me to close the thread.
     
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