Due to the anonymous nature of the internet forum, anyone can make an allegation that may or may not be true. Not accusing you of anything so please do not take it as such. But you have three posts to your credit and they are all in this thread. It is no secret that GM Rodemaker was with the ICHF before he branched out on his own. And yes you provided links to copies of certificates. But I cannot tell if they are fake or not. I only have your word to go on at this point. And like Master Sogor said, why do you care so much?
I for one greatly appreciate your efforts and have nothing but respect for what you are trying to do.
Combat Hapkido As with any and all Martial arts all are good all are bad you get out what you put in if you study and work hard then you will receive benefits unless you have have really tried a style and know the ins and out don't put it down.Not all styles are meant for every one.I am an Advance student of Yang Style Tai Chi,Black Belt Combat Hapkido,Black Belt Hoi Jeon Moo Sool,25 years U.S. Mil.Combat Vet.age 62 and still work out 5 days a week and 5miles every day.Yes I have paid my dues so I can say If you work hard in your chosen Style and have a (Teacher who know what is the Style being thought ) its all good,Must Good Teacher and put in Hard Work. Enjoy Life For Martial Arts Is Away Of Life. R.J.B.(lonewarror) Texas
Hello all, I am always amazed when there is something critical said about someone who makes up there own art, or the made up art itself, and eventually someone comes along and starts being philosophical about getting on the mat, knowing the "art" in question, and the proverbial "don't put it down". Rubbish! When do the needs of the students come into play? When does it matter that the material being taught may not be effective, may not be safe, or is simply the result of someone with a huge ego cobbling together some stuff and passing it off to an unsuspecting public? When should we be concerned about them? Now Lonewarrior, I don't see "Tactical Hapkido" on your short resume, so do you know something many of us don't? Is there a bank of training that has been had by its Founder that would lead any of us in Hapkido to think that we are missing something? Founders generally have very high rank in parent styles to then want to shoot off and claim they have created something else - do you know of such rank? Have you looked at the material this organization presents as representative of its technique? Since you have "paid your dues" what is your assessment? Does the "Founder" look like he is, well, on balance, while he is moving? Do the techniques look like they are credible? Would you let someone you know and care about train with this group? Before we get so on the high horse of pontificating about fairness, let's consider those who may not know better who would like to read some critical information about a group or instructor.
I train Tactical Hapkido and hold Dan rank within this organization. I am familiar with the curriculum and methods. I have also trained in Combat Hapkido though I hold no official rank with that organization. I would be happy to have a friendly talk about our school and org etc Kevin. If you want too.
kevin: i hear what you're saying and am in general agreement. but i'm going to play devil's advocate a bit here to try to elucidate the issue a bit more. choi didn't hold rank in drajj and seemingly made up his own "martial art" out of nothing. what makes him better than combat or tactical "founders"? what if the tactical dude (who's name is escaping me now) called his "art" "tactical bad-ass"? would that make it better? it's just semantics? people make up martial arts out of nothing all the time. that cuhon (sp?) was literally just made up by some vietnamese dude. cheers.
EXCELLENT POINT! And I appreciate you acting as the advocate - so I don't have to! While it is true that we cannot fully ascertain Choi Dojunim's rank in Daito-Ryu, he taught an array of techniques that he claimed he learned while training with Takeda Sokaku - we all know the story. Choi Dojunim started to teach in Korea when he was 48 years old, he remained consistent his entire life as to his training, and what he had learned. Having met a few "founders" of styles in my life, I would say that the way they execute technique is profoundly different from the way a novice does. Having met several students of Choi Dojunim, I would say the same thing about the way they do technique. What makes him better, good question, for ME its because the material has stood the test of time - that is, for me it continues to work given a range of circumstances, and is consistently useable for different people as well. As for any of the "name" Hapkido variants; yes, I have an issue with them. The claim is that they got rid of useless material and streamlined the curriculum - that would be fine if either of these variant founders actually KNEW or LEARNED the entire curriculum; that is not the case. What is even funnier is that in one case, the "founder" "trained" with people that claimed to be associated with Choi Dojunim, then he said he removed material that was unneeded in combat - yet Choi Dojunim's material is all combat oriented - there are no high kicks to get rid of, no acrobatics, so the premise that this man makes is nonsense. So one is a sub-set of some techniques, the other is a sub-set of the first... again, who looks out for the guy looking to train that knows nothing about martial arts? Is it semantics? Maybe, but if the word Hapkido was not used to sell this material, I frankly would not know about it unless the back grounds in training of these "founders" was questioned. So for me, "tactical bad-ass" would be better...how can someone modify or change something they never even learned?
Hello Jon, Although I am always happy to discuss organizations, and I try to do so in a friendly way, can you shed any light on training in Hapkido within Tactical Hapkido that is not available on the web site? Does he hold high rank in other arts? I am lost as to the Founder claim otherwise. Thank you.
Sir while I am comfortable speaking about my own experiences I think it's kind of unfair to try to comment on the experiences of others. I've seen my GM slighted in threads like this before and as he is a friend of mine. It's very important to me that he get the same respect that you have always shown me, if not more. You can hear him speak about his lineage in his own words on these podcasts: http://archive.org/details/TacticalHapkidoAlliancePodcast I can say that whatever our failings as an organization I believe Grand Master Rodemaker to be a very, very, skilled Hapkidoin. I also believe his system is sound. Another thing, I think is important is that he is actively working to improve Tactical Hapkido and is always working hard to make our organization and curriculum better. In fact we all are. I admit that what little I know about Jungki-Kwan I've learned from your posts and from your website. I believe that your Hapkido is a very pure and traditional Hapkido. Chon Sul Kwan is a system that isn't as traditional as Jungki-Kwan. I suspect we are further from the source. In fairness we've only been around for about a decade. Many of our practitioners have come to us from other styles of Hapkido and we all learn from each other. Another thing that sets us apart is nearly all of our practitioners are black belts in other styles, this also informs our ideas. Our GM himself holds rank in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido. Whereas a very traditional Hapkido (perhaps your own) might be a fixed curriculum. Ours is one we are trying to improve. In many ways I personally think we are trying to get away from our Combat Hapkido influences and move in the direction of being a more traditional school. However the world might view us we're working very hard to make THA the best organization we can.
Hello Jon, While I would address all the things you commented on, I will say I am more surprised that you are reticent to just list Tactical Hapkido Founder's training and rank. While I have listened to the "podcast" before, it does not simply lay out training and rank in any fruitful way. Within the Jungki Kwan, Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo is a 9th Dan in Hapkido from Choi Dojunim, certificate #2; of which there are only 4. He is the longest single training student of the Founder starting in 1965 through to 1984ish when he slowed training due to a stroke. Choi Dojunim taught out of Grandmaster Lim's Dojang for about the last ten years of his life. I have no idea about the Tactical Hapkido Organizational failings, every organization has issues, I am not sure these have been the central topic of this thread. Again, this is not deriding you at all, but while you mention that the organization is attempting to become more orthodox, to what ends is this being done? Where is the training being done - that would also be interesting, as this material cannot simply be invented... Again, I am not sure about the curriculum of Tactical Hapkido, and comparing it to the one I use might be like apples to oranges, but it is also of interest to me. NOW, the more central issue you raised. This is not a slight of the man at all. He may in fact be a nice person, as he may be a good friend. That is not at issue here. What is at issue is his claim to be a Grandmaster of Hapkido to the degree that he has "created" his own style - and as far as I have seen, that is the only issue. To make such a claim holds one out for examination - and valid questions are being raised here from people that what to know more. I hope that is well understood.
If you've heard the podcasts you know as much as I do about our GM's lineage. If he wants to share more he will. I grant you have a solid point. I hope you will let that particular part of our discussion lay and that we can move on to more important things like the future. Regarding becoming more orthodox. What I really need is somebody who is completely and purely orthodox (like yourself) to help me sift through our curriculum. While I may not have the power to change our curriculum what I might be able to do is to point out that this particular thing is pure Hapkido and this other particular thing is something we've adopted from another style. In this way we can begin to separate the wheat from the chaff.
But that's just it, why is he so vague about his training? Why not just list it straight out on his web site? This is what is listed on his website for training specifics: http://www.tacticalhapkido.com/about_us.htm "He started to receive formal training in the martial arts when he was 17 by his mentor Master Joe Fox, now a Grandmaster, Rodemaker received his first degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, but the curriculum taught was Moo Duk Kwan. Being a black belt, his mentor gave Rodemaker a key to the school and made him in charge of the morning classes and then later he taught the evening classes. During this time he was teaching, he met a fellow student who was also a 3rd dan in Hapkido and the two would come in early everyday before classes started and only focus on practicing the techniques not the forms. Afterwards Rodemaker would then teach his fellow students what he learned." So does "he met a fellow student who was also a 3rd dan in Hapkido" mean that Rodemaker was a 3rd dan in Hapkido OR that he was only training with a student who was a 3rd dan in Hapkido? If its the latter, then IMO it is a little misleading. Putting aside whether he had any business teaching those "other" fellow students techniques he appeared to be just learning, the obvious question is who did he train under and what time periods and when was he ranked/tested? There are some other red flags here and namely one of them is using acceptance by the "International Black Belt Organization" as a claim of international acceptance or validation. Again it's vague when IMO there is no reason to be.
I will preface with the notion that I don’t know GM Rodemaker or what he does, but I know he comes from “Combat Hapkido” (as a split-off). I don’t know how far he progressed in the system before splitting off. If compared to what passes as “Hapkido” today, Choi Yong-sool Dojunim would probably not be acknowledged as a Hapkido instructor. He would probably be seen as a Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu Instructor. I would imagine that within the DRAJJ community, he would be looked at as a bit of a ‘heretic’ because he didn’t have his rank papers in order and because he was willing to blend a bit of Yudo in through his first main student (Suh Beok-sup). What became known more widely as “Hapkido” is the concoction that guys like GM Ji Han-jae and GM Kim Moo-hong put together, namely blending in more kicks and strikes and Korean style weapons. All of that opened the door for the super fancy flying spinning kicks and acrobatic breakfalls that most people associate with “Hapkido” nowadays. The influence of that type of development can also be seen in stuff like Kuk Sool, Hwarangdo, and even Hankido. So, to me, it makes sense that people like GM Pellegrini of the ICHF would look at the earlier roots of “Hapkido” (or DRAJJ) and see that if you strip away the acrobatic breakfalls, crazy kicks, and archaic weapons, you get a more practical and focused self defense platform. And, while it may drive some people to distraction, I would hazard a guess that if Choi Yong-sool Dojunim took a look at the modern styles of high flying Hapkido out there and the stripped down “Combat” style, he would probably see more in common with the latter than the former. But, then again, I only speculate… As far as the name, and we’ve been through this before, that falls under the “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” category. Had GM Pellegrini named his art without referencing “Hapkido”, he’d get crucified for not identifying his sources. As a student of Combat Hapkido who also trained in “traditional” Hapkido (and who has been on the mat with quite a few other ‘traditional’ Hapkidoin), I can state definitively that the core operating system is “Hapkido” and that’s where the roots of the art are. We don’t have the flashy flying kicks or the acrobatic breakfalls, or the ‘traditional’ weapons and we feel free to blend in ideas from other arts… probably very much like the early founders of the various Hapkido Kwan did before us.
Thomas, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. It is much the same with Tactical Hapkido. As I have spent time with both orgs I can say that they are in many ways mirrors of one another. K-Mart....Wal Mart...
I did find a little more information which was posted from an interview at http://www.ovguide.com/barry-rodemaker-9202a8c04000641f800000000b3ea309# "Barry A. Rodemaker was born on September 16, 1969 in Harrisburg Pennsylvania. Rodemaker is the founder and president of the Tactical Hapkido Alliance.\nHe and his father would watch Kung Fu Theater. His parents sent him to local martial arts seminars\nWhen he was 17, he trained with Joe Fox. Rodemaker received first degree black belt in Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do. He trained with a fellow student in Han Mu Do from manuals and videos by He-Young Kimm.\nRodemaker received his 2nd dan from Fox and he moved to Erie to open a school.\nRodemaker founded the Tactical Hapkido Alliance in 2001. In 2003 Rodemaker was recognized by the International Black Belt Organization. In 2007 Rodemaker received the Dojunim certification and 8th dan from the United States Head of Family Martial Arts Association International Supreme Elite Warrior Council\nHe is an representative of the United States Head of Family Martial Arts Association.\nRodemaker is working with MEDIA MOGULS, INCORPORATED (MMI) on the video series BEST DEFENSE, on how women, people with disabilities and children can defend themselves." So assuming this is correct, then GM Rodemaker is 43 years old and started training at age 17 in 1986 under a Mr. Fox and started his Tactical Hapkido Alliance organization after 15 years(?) of training in 2001. There are still more questions specifically about the training in between but at least it puts a little perspective on it. The question I have is did he start his own organization or create his own style (or both) in 2001?
Hello Thomas, We have talked about this before, but Ji added nothing really. The weapons were already there from Choi Dojunim, the kicks were for all intents and purposes from Kim Moo-Wong. This really isn't about Combat Hapkido, bur again, its founder trained with people that claimed lineage to Choi Dojunim - though most were just claims, and thus why would all the things you list have even have been included? I'll just leave that issue alone. Choi Dojunim's material could hardly get more focused, he took nothing from anyone, and taught what he had been taught, which made him totally unique on the Korean peninsula. And he would have been better off calling it P-Do or something, no one would care after they did actually hear his rank and training lineage, as it is. But this is getting us off topic, we are discussing the issues around Tactical Hapkido and the rank and material of its Founder, if he is directly connected to Combat Hapkido, he is certainly doing a good job not telling us anything about rank or training.
