Systema Christian roots? MA's effects on the soul?

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Filipmania, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    As far as I am aware the art has origins going back to the 10th century, a familiar story ensued with the formation of the USSR, it was banned, but because it was effective it was taken, and modernised for military and intelligence units, being a vast country, there were several regional instructors, Kadochnikov was 1, Ryabko another, who was first I will take your knowledge as better than mine, as with all MA styles, they tend to not talk about other styles. I agree Ryabko style does look cumbersome, but it is effective
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I belive it's called KALSARIKÄNNIT.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If the listed dates are correct Kado was teaching it when mikhail was still a baby, so it's likily mikhail was at least second.

    How do you know its effective, he's never made any well known fighters, vlad isn't a product of him, he's always shown beating up willing participants, and technique is more often then not ridiculous.
     
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  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    As a contrast, this is good martial arts from a systema guy!

     
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  5. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    2 ways I know it's effective, firstly at one of his seminars, I was asked to attack him in a demo, I asked how fast, he replied through an interpreter "how fast, how much power, fist, foot it's up to you", so stupidly I tried to embarrass him I ended up a heap on the floor. Secondly he has taught Vlad, if you read let every breath, strikes, or his new book blade, he thanks Mikhail for the knowledge he past to him, also on Vlad seminars, he has often taught things he has learnt from MR, Ryo Onishi also refers to lessons from MR, incidental, if you are interested in training with Vlad, he has a seminar March this year at Lillie hall Shropshire.
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I've trained with a few systema people under vlad, they're were all terrible, vlad himself looks good, but is obviously just making money, and many of his techniques depend on the flaws in the training system.

    You train systema, and BJJ, have you ever pulled off any non bjj systema moves on any colour belt during rolling/wrestling/mma sparring?
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I find watching Vlad quite infuriating. He's obviously got a good sense of timing, distance and mechanics, but all his demos are low percentage tricks against compliant feeders. He does always look like he's having fun though, which I suppose isn't to be sniffed at.
     
  8. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    Not sure if you are talking to me, but yes I train Systema, but only Systema, I had held 3rd Dan in Bujinkan Ninjutsu, and 3rd Dan in Hapkido, when you say trained under Vlad, directly or under somebody who is under somebody, who trained with Vlad. The problem with some Systema practioners, they do not fully understand the principles, m and are very keen to quote names.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You've previously said you've trained with gracie barra And rolled with a Gracie, so you've never trained BJJ?
     
  10. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    No I stated gracie barra in Bath had a good rep, and I did once roll with Ryan gracie on a trip to Brazil, well I say roll, embarrassed by him, he had a rep as a bad boy (and he was), but no matter what he achieved his biggest fight in MA was his surname.
     
  11. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Old Bloke, Since you are a Systema practitioner, can you tell us if the OP's experiences are typical in Systema? Is this Christian influence widespread and standard, or is it just that person's particular school and not the norm?

    Is this thing about descending from Xtian monks a widespread teaching in the style?

    Thanks!
     
  12. Filipmania

    Filipmania New Member

    I was gone without wifi lol
    I wouldn't be too sure about the 2nd, with various holy wars in the bible itself

    Dead_pool
    You mentioned a fault in the training system, care to explain?


    aaradia
    Ah pretty sure it's not just me, I recall reading what some higher instructor said included "altho I have not yet accepted Orthodoxy", there's a link and like I said looking it up yields Christian style art, I'm glad Old bloke says Mikhail is not a preacher since I've never actually been to his Seminar's but I heard tales
     
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    My mistake, that must of been pre 2007 yes? Did you roll with anyone else on the trip?
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

     
  15. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    I had a play with a couple of people, but nobody else of note, was on a trip with my brother in law who trains at Bath, but spends a lot of time at the recently opened school inFrome Somerset.
     
  16. Filipmania

    Filipmania New Member

    Well I've been pressured enough in places to decide to take MMA&BJJ classes when my club's Aikido is out for school vacations because MMA/BJJ are the only true standards apparently
    But no really, Systema is about free form(there's no techniques&decided patterns), I don't see how you can genuinely practice it without sparring since your partner doesn't know exactly what you might do while we're "playing" and you can fail and get hit by the other, unless of course both of you are standing still and talking like "I'm just gonna... this.. that".
    What do you mean by fall over tho? break falls? that's a thing for sure but in a minority of the classes, don't know which class you've taken/seen but at least in my school more often than not we take a "slide it off and use the force of the impact to strike again" approach
     
  17. Filipmania

    Filipmania New Member

    I forgot to talk about the soft strikes, I'm not sure how much you're into it but it basically just means you attack with the flat surface of your fist creating a "boom" sound we use as a judge on weather or not it was a good punch, it influences mass mentality while avoiding making real injury and still being a strong throwback punch considering your generally relaxed except the hand at the last moment arm will transfer all the force from your full body i.e hip rotation and whatnot

    Edit 2:
    "Is this thing about descending from Xtian monks a widespread teaching in the style?"
    I came here to discuss this lol
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So when you rolled with people, did any of your systema work?
     
  19. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    In the Systema schools that I have visited, their religion is separate from training. Systema training is holistic, mental as well as physical, it asks you to look in side yourself, and deal with fears and phobias, some get a little over the top when they clear a mental block or fear.
     
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  20. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    This was before Systema training, at the time I was training Hapkido. But your question of does it work, yes it works, but, I have only used it once in self defence, not sparred with another MA though.
     

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