Tricep Pushdown, Rope Pushdown, Close Grip Bench Press, Board Press, and Floor Press are all good exercises in helping to get the lockout when pushing towards max effort bench press sets. For me personally triceps are what is holding me back from breaking the 50kg bench barrier, so I always do these, even some band pushdowns at home I read Dave Tate suggested in one of his EFTS books. Though generally I like to have some pulling exercises to help balance out a mainly pushing workout eg Lat Pulldowns (Overhead Press), T-Bar or Low Cable Rows (Bench Press).
harukoraharu: I don't have any real problems with the lockout yet, but will remember it for when I do. Hope you can break that 50kg bench barrier soon. Also, maybe I should stop being stubborn and just go with Starting Strength to build up some base strength. Any thoughts?
I think Starting Strength is great. I have the book and dvd. But it's not without flaws. Plenty of guys I see at the gym, as well as the few girls that train, cant do 10-15 reps of chins, pullup or dips. So already the bar is a bit high on some of those supplementary exercises. I have a shoulder flexibility issue so Cleans are tough, yet it's a great dynamic lift and I don't know many people who have added 2.5 or 5kg after each week and stuck with it for more than 3 months, mostly because protein shakes apart most people don't want to add a lot of bulk too, I know I don't. I started Bench at 25-30kg, now 45-50kg; Overhead Press 20-25kg, now 30-35kg, Deadlift 40-50kg, now 110-120kg and Squat 30-40kg, now 75-85kg over 18 months. SS didn't show me what part of my lift was weak and preventing it going up. Weights would go up, level out and even go down doing same rep/sets. Others pointed it out watching me doing max effort and dynamic effort reps. For me the weak areas to target are lats and triceps on upper body days and hamstrings and glutes on lower body days
harukoraharu: Doing 10-15 reps of chin/pull-ups and dips is too much for me right now. At first I was thinking about one of the versions without cleans (either chin/pull-up or row version), but after reading some articles I get the idea that the version with clean is the one you should be doing. Also I do not mind gaining some mass, it's only a shame it will make progressing with the frogstand a little harder. Still have some time to decide, next workout will be Tuesday evening.
Do whatever number of reps of chins/dips/pullups you can manage, or do more sets with fewer reps. I would put the frogstand as early as you can manage in your routine, or do them on a different day.
I would do any bodyweight exercise early on in a routine. I only do 4-5 reps max on chinups sets (and dips when I did them unassisted). Pyramiding the sets has helped me get more reps done. I ought to do frogstands too. These handstands are not going to learn themselves
I would do any bodyweight exercise early on in a routine. I only do 4-5 reps max on chinups sets (and dips when I did them unassisted). Pyramiding the sets has helped me get more reps done. I ought to do frogstands too. These handstands are not going to learn themselves
I have decided to try the 'standard' starting strength. Will probably start with hang cleans for a bit to get the technique on those before going for a full power clean, and will go with one assistance exercise per workout (will work up to 5x5 first). Will see if I can get the frogstands in the workouts and if not will do them two or three times a week in the morning or on non-gym days. Workout A Squats Bench Deadlift Dips Workout B Squats Press Clean Pull/Chin-ups Could I, using bench as example, take the weight of my last workout and use that (or a little less) for my first starting strength workout?
I would choose a weight you know you can get the 5x5. For me on Bench Press this would be no more than 43kg
*** Starting Strength; Workout A *** Date: 13-3-2012 Weight: 90.8kg Squats - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 3 x 5 @ 45kg Bench Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 1 x 5 @ 40kg; 1 x 5 @ 50kg - 3 x 5 @ 55kg Deadlift - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 1 x 3 @ 40kg; 1 x 3 @ 50kg - 1 x 5 @ 60kg Dips, assisted - 5 x 5 @ -10kg
*** Starting Strength; Workout B *** Date: 15-3-2012 Weight: 90.6kg Squats - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 3 x 5 @ 47.5kg Shoulder Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 25kg - 3 x 5 @ 32.5kg Hang Clean - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 5 x 3 @ 40kg Chin-ups, assisted - 3 x 5 @ -15kg Dragonflag, negatives - 5 x 1 Reverse Crunch - 2 x 10 <> Shoulder Press: Yay! these went well. <> Hang Clean: I think these are quite tough technique wise. <> Chin-ups: Did not go too well, so I stopped after the 3th set.
Found this on t-nation. Would it be a good idea to practice these steps at the cost of doing a few less cleans for now?
It wouldn't hurt! When I was learning the clean we all started with shrugs and jump shrugs before moving on to the full clean and even then would often do 2 or 3 shrugs followed by 1 clean to really emphasise the importance of the shrug in the movement. You're fairly new to cleans so rather than really pushing the weight, concentrate on getting the technique correct.
*** Starting Strength; Workout A *** Date: 17-3-2012 Weight: 90.4kg Squats - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 3 x 5 @ 50kg Bench Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 1 x 5 @ 40kg; 1 x 3 @ 50kg - 3 x 5 @ 57.5kg Deadlift - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 35kg - 1 x 3 @ 45kg; 1 x 3 @ 55kg - 1 x 5 @ 65kg Dips - 5 x 5 @ BW Reverse Crunch - 3 x 10
Seventh: Thank you! *** Starting Strength; Workout B *** Date: 20-3-2012 Weight: 91.1kg Squats - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 3 x 5 @ 52.5kg Shoulder Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 27.5kg - 3 x 5 @ 35kg Clean Practice* - 3 x 1 @ 30kg * Shrug x 2, Jump Shrug x 2, Low Pull x 2, High Pull x 2, Hang Clean x 1 Hang Clean - 1 x 5 @ 30kg Horizontal Row while waiting for the chin-up station - 3 x 5 Chin-ups, assisted - 3 x 5 @ -30kg Dragonflag, negative - 3 x 2 - Hang Clean: Still have trouble with these technique wise. Next time I will only do Shrugs, Jump Shrugs and Low Pulls and see how that goes. - Chin-ups: Will try those ladders that harukoraharu uses next workout to get more volume in. Not feeling strong on these at the moment.
Stick at it Yesterday at the gym I saw a couple of guys doing Hang Cleans and neither were correct. That didn't stop one of them pulling 40kg upto catch with bent wrists in something that looked more like a cross between a boxing guard and a weak kettlebell clean rack position. I thought about saying something but most men don't take criticism well in the gym, particularly from a woman! Both had a good strong shrug and dynamic pulling action but it was the rack position that was all kinds of wrong. I find this part difficult too possibly because of shoulder mobility issues I need to work on, and the bar feels uncomfortably close to the neck when correct, plus trying not to resist the temptation to take any of the weight on my arms at the rack position (just what both guys were doing).
harukoraharu: I will, thanks ! My problem (I think) is that I lack the coordination to do the move as a whole, and catching the weight in the rack position is hard too. Also, I wish there was a woman around in my gym that could give me some tips on the clean (or any exercise at that).
*** Starting Strength; Workout A *** Date: 17-3-2012 Weight: 91.5kg Squats - 2 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 3 x 5 @ 55kg Bench Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 1 x 5 @ 40kg; 1 x 3 @ 50kg - 3 x 5 @ 60kg Deadlift - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 40kg - 1 x 3 @ 50kg; 1 x 3 @ 60kg - 1 x 5 @ 70kg; 1 x 5 @ 80kg Dips - 4 x 6 @ BW; 1 x 5 @ BW Dragonflag, negatives - 1 x 3 Reverse Crunch - 3 x 10 <> Bench/Dips: Shoulder was not happy with something I did. Will not increase weight and pay extra attention to form next time. <> Dragonflag: Abs said 'no', so only one set of three (instead of two). Last few days have been not so fun, so I haven't done any frogstands yet in between workouts. Also added an extra set of deadlifts (80kg one) to get rid of some frustration.
Date of the previous workout should be 22-3-2012, not 17-3-2012. ** Starting Strength; Workout B ** Date: 24-3-2012 Weight: 90.6kg Squats - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 30kg - 1 x 3 @ 40kg; 1 x 3 @ 50kg - 3 x 5 @ 57.5kg Shoulder Press - 1 x 5 @ 20kg; 1 x 5 @ 27.5kg - 3 x 5 @ 37.5kg Clean Practice I* - 1 x 1 @ 30kg, 1 x 1 @ 40kg Clean Practice II** - 3 x 1 @ 30kg Hang Clean - 3 x 5 @ 30kg Chin-ups - 3 x 3,2,1 Reverse Crunch - 3 x 12 * Shrug x 5, Jump Shrug x 5 ** Low Pull x 3, High Pull x 3 <> Hang Clean: I get the feeling that they are going a bit better than before, still need plenty of practice though.
