Sydney IMA -Sun Da Fa?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by zos23, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. zos23

    zos23 New Member

    This is my first post on this forum, and I was hoping on getting some perspectives on those training IMA in Sydney. I know there is already some threads regarding this, but I specifically wanted to know if anyone is currently training with, or has ever trained with Sun Da Fa. I have been living in the UK for many years, training Fujian White Crane as well as Nei Kung, and ill be moving back to Sydney in the near future where ill be looking to further my training. I am also very interested in learning Liu He Ba Fa with Cornelius Coelho. I have had a profound lack of success in contacting either of them, so if anyone out there in Sydney could give me a hand, or at least let me know whether it is possible to train with them that would be fantastic. They both sound like they are very highly accomplished, so any insight into the quality of their training would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    Hey man,

    I looked into training with Sun Da Fa last year but If I recall the prices for classes were enough to put me off to be quite honest! ... I haven't heard anything bad or good about him but I'm sure he would be a good either way and you would learn something for sure. I actually trained with Cornelius Coelho a couple of years ago now and it seems some of my early web postings have caught on with a few local people. It should be said that Connie is a very nice man but I found the training to be lacking to be honest and not what I was looking for personally; more Qigong than self defense oriented martial art. I also know for a fact that the Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jeung set's are bereft of ANY martial applications since Connie did not learn them! He told me this himself when I trained with him and pressed for more info. Connie does not really teach Liu He Ba Fa anymore and just sticks to the Wun Yuen stuff ... I have happily stuck with my training under Erle Montaigue.

    Hope that helps ... Syd.
     
  3. zos23

    zos23 New Member

    hey syd,
    thanks. Just wondering how you got in contact with Sun Da Fa? Do you have a phone number floating around you could pass on? and about how much were his classes? (PM me if you dont wanna post this in this thread)
    cheers mate...
     
  4. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    He used to have a webpage with an e-mail address but it seems to have vanished. If you do an online search for his name I think there is a still some vry simple homepage with a new e-mail addy ... I don't recall the class prices but I was keen to learn some of his Xing Yi forms and Chinese Wrestling stuff, it was more than I wanted to pay for a 1.5 hour lesson from what I recall but I just can't remember the exact cost ... sorry.

    Here ya go ---> http://www.mastersun.com/

    And ... ----> http://www.angelfire.com/id/sundafa/sundafa.html

    If you get to Sydney let me know! ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
  5. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    Sun Da Fa's class fees are very reasonable, $20 per 2 hour session, small group, no uniform or joining fee....this compared to Yin Yang Bagua in Gouldburn st ( $28 per lesson where you are taught Wushu-ish Bagua & Tai Chi with little martial application )


    The number on his website is the best option, it's his home number and you can call him at home at night when he is more likely to be in.

    A word of caution. Sun Da Fa was a Shaolin EMA master before moving over to Wudang IMA.
    Given that he teaches/ practises IMA with a very EMA attitude....which kind of defeats the purpose of IMA.
    Having said that , his techniques will work in a real fight.....not so sure it will still work when you are 60 whereas a "true" IMA will still be fairly effective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  6. zos23

    zos23 New Member

    Hey soggycat,
    Thanks for the reply. Ive read a few of your posts, and from them i reckon you really know what you're talking about. I went to one of Sun Da Fa's classes, and I saw what you mean about the emphasis on externality. I'd really appreciate your opinion on a few things if its not too much trouble:

    1. Basically, what I'm really after is a Daoist Sifu. Not just one who teaches a Daoist system, but one who lives by the Dao and can give instruction on its practices and philosophies. I know it is said that you will find a teacher when you are truly ready, so im not holding my breath. Ive read that Bing Zhao is such a man, but he is also slagged off by many people, specially on this website. What is your opinion of him?

    2. Do you know (or anyone else reading this for that matter) know of anyone else teaching Fujian Baihequan (White Crane) in Sydney (NOT Tibetan White Crane)?

    3. Whats is your opinion of the following people: Yu Guo Dong, William Ho, Cornelius Coelho?

    If you feeling uncomfortable posting this on the public forum please PM me, because your opinion would be of great help to me. Like I said before, any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

    cheers...
     
  7. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    G'day...I will PM you because based on past experience , what I say will start another silly pointless debate with people who do not seek the Dao.....but give me a little while to compose a response as I'm a little tied up at work now yeah ? :)
     
  8. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I think you need to clarify for yourself what exactly it is you want to learn. If you want to learn Daoist philosophy then go to Taiwan and study the Yi-jing. If you want to learn Daoist alchemy and herbal medicine then study TCM. If you want to study Daoist qigong then study the traditional qigong methods of Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua. If you want to learn Daoist martial arts then study Xingyi or Bagua, as they are considered by most historians to be closest to what martial arts may have been practiced at such Daoist sanctuaries as Wudang, Jiuhua, Emei, etc. If you want to actually be a Daoist "priest" then move to China and join a Daoist temple.

    If you think all Daoists are CMA or qigong masters then you couldn't be more wrong. If you think that the best living practitioners of Daoist martial arts are necessarily Daoists, then you'd be wrong on that count too. If you really want to find a Daoist hermit that will teach you a Daoist martial art then you're best bet would be to start wandering around Mt. Emei or Jiuhua and hope one's still around... don't go near Wudang--it's already a tourist trap. But if you're serious about learning Daoist-inspired martial arts, then just dedicate yourself to the study of Xingyi and/or Bagua with a good teacher. As to actually finding a real Daoist who is also a master of qigong and martial arts... well, that's become nearly impossible to find even in China, much less Australia.

    If what you're after is an effective martial art where you don't have to sweat (an unfortunate impression some people have about "internal" martial arts)--then forget it, it doesn't exist. :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2005
  9. zos23

    zos23 New Member

    im not really sure if i like your tone onyomi,
    no, im not interested in a martial art where i dont have to sweat. yes, im interested in Daoist philosophies, but im not quite ready to pack my bags and go off and live in Taiwan. I am also interetsed in Daoist healing methods, but im also not able to currently go running off to China either. Im also not naive enough to think im going to find a Daoist hermit in Sydney sleeping in a bus shelter somewhere. Im also not naive enough to think that all Daoists are martial art masters, or even everyone labelled "Daoist" shares texactly he same theories and practices. I just happen to feel a lot of amazing stuff, including internal martial arts, has been put under the label "Daoism", and im just wondering if anyone out there has had an experiences with it in Sydney. And the fact that is all put under the same label implies some kind of cohesiveness between these arts, doesn't it? And this cohesiveness would also seem to imply that one person could have interest, perhap even a significant prowess, in more than one of them. By seperating an categorising them, you make them out to be completely different entities, whereas i , perhaps naively, feel that there are certain similarities between them. Like Kung Fu and TCM, on a very obvious shallow level.
    Just because someone teaches a Daoist martial art, it doesn't mean they have a matching philosophy/lifestyle. In my limited experience, far from it. Im only asking if anyone is aware of a teacher who happens to try and eatch these philosophies, and has significant knowledge of other Daoist practices other than just martial arts. And, shock horror, im pretty sure somewhere in the world, in amongst the posers, someone like this genuinely exists. And like I said in my earlier post, im not holding my breath, im just merely asking whether anyone here has had any experiences like this in Sydney they could share with me. m'kay?
     
  10. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I wasn't trying to criticize or make fun of your interest in Daoism. I share the same interest... I was just trying to steer you away from those who think there is something intrinsically different or superior about the so-called Daoist/Internal martial arts versus other CMAs. It was your comment about a class looking "too external" that got me started. A balanced martial art trains both the internal and external aspects. Training the qi can make your body function better and train your muscles do things they couldn't do otherwise. But you can't use qi to move or harm people without touching them. It's still the muscles that move your body and the external movements that defeat the opponent.

    My point about Daoism is that it is such a huge category that it's unlikely to find any one person who is a master of all its aspects. Saying "I want to find a Daoist teacher" is like saying "I want to find a professor." My question to you was: "are you looking for a professor of philosophy, medicine, astrology, meditation or martial arts?" Even in the heyday of Mt. Wudang and the like I'm sure that some of the Daoists pursued martial arts while others pursued philosophy, while others pursued medicine, etc. Since such a huge quantity of information falls under the blanket term, "Daoist," therefore I was suggesting you'd have more success by focusing on studying one or two. Even if you want to study absolutely everything you can about Daoism the best way probably won't be through one teacher, but through many, as those who have the greatest knowledge in one area will have devoted themselves to that one area to some extent at the expense of the other areas.

    I'm sure there have been throughout history a few rare specimens who were accomplished in medical, martial and philosophical aspects of Daoism... but such people are hardly to be found anywhere because they'd have to devote their entire lives to rigorous study and practice. If you want someone knowledgeable about Daoist philosophy you can probably find a couple in Sydney. If you want someone who knows the Yijing you might be able to find someone else in Sydney. If you want someone who knows herbal medicine there are probably a few in Sydney. If you want someone who's a real master of Xingyi or Bagua you might be able to find one in Sydney if you're lucky... but one person who is a master of all these... I doubt you could find anyone like that living in all of modern-day China, much less in Sydney.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2005
  11. Azrael

    Azrael Fighting Spirit

    William Ho is a business man first and foremost, Cornelius Coelho does not teach anymore but by all accounts is a skilled internal martial artist, Bing Zhao talks big and is well known for being somewhat arrogant, and San Da Fa is a skilled martial artist with solid ability. Personally, I've met Sun Da Fa a few times, and have always been impressed with his martial ability and charachter. He also has the best posture I've ever seen.
     
  12. Mad-about-Bagua

    Mad-about-Bagua Valued Member


    William Ho conducts a lot of Charity work supported by Government Community grants and tops off any shortfall with personal funds.

    He is the organiser for “keep youth off the streets “ type programs in the Parramatta area by conducting Lion Dance training and community performances.
    His U-26 youth group puts on Lion Dances during Chinese New Year, Australia Day, Harmony Day, Spring Festival, Moon Festival.
    In fact, if you are under 26, you can join his group for FREE as long as you help him put up Lion Dance shows several times a year.

    He also organises free “ Daily morning Tai Chi “ sessions for senior citizens in Parramatta, Eastwood…participants are from all race groups
    All these are non profit organisations.
    He has also received a police commendation for apprehending a snatch thief.

    Azrael, you are not correct in implying William Ho is out there with a business motive. He is a retired old man who wants to pass on Bagua and Tai Chi to sincere students as well as help people along the way.

    I would know. I helped him fill out numerous Government Grant applications and as such have personally examined all his financial documents....Profit ? You gotta be kidding.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  13. Mad-about-Bagua

    Mad-about-Bagua Valued Member

    How much to learn ?

    For Bagua & Tai Chi training, William Ho charges $20 ph for private class or $20 per 2 hour class ( public class in the park ) or $100 per month ( unlimited lessons per week). These rates apply only if you are above 26.
    If under 26, he will teach for FREE on the sole condition you must join his Youth Lion Dance troupe ( charity & community based).

    How much does your teacher Martin Yang ( Yang Mian School ) charge ?
    I heard $100 per private lesson ?
    Now who's the business man ?
    :)

    Even Marko Vesse ( Invisible Master / Wu Xing Dao) charges $75 per private lesson ... so I heard.

    Yin Yang Bagua in Gouldburn St, charges $135 for 5 lessons ( plan) ie. $27 per lesson ( 1.5 hours) or $35 per casual entry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  14. Azrael

    Azrael Fighting Spirit

    M-A-B: My appologies, I should know better than to express a personal opinion based on my own individual experiences on an open forum, and probably could have done so much better.

    As I have only ever met your shifu once in a business capacity, I cannot comment on his martial arts as I have simply not seen any. I'll stick to my opinion that he is a good business man, just don't take it as a negative as it is not meant that way. Nothing to do with money. The key to being successful in business is being a good middle man, and even by your own description he has that down. No need to defend, no disrespect intended.

    As for my teacher, Yang Zhen Hua, yes he does have a good head for business, and many of his students are professionals within various industries such as law, accounting etc, so he has alot of great advice in terms of building the Yang Mian system for the future. He actually charges more in some instances than you quoted, but I don't see any need to defend this as it is well justified. Oh, and it's 'master', not 'martin'.

    P.S Cornelious Coelho is still retired, Bing Zhao can still do no touch knockdowns, and San Da Fa still looks a little like the bad guy from Enter The Dragon.

    :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2005
  15. Mad-about-Bagua

    Mad-about-Bagua Valued Member

    No worries mate, and Merry Christmas to all.
    :Angel:
     
  16. pigu

    pigu New Member

    Shifu Cornelius is teaching at the moment 420 Oxford St Bondi Juction Mall area sunday at 930am but hes only teaching hun yuen..he might teach liu ho ba fa but youd have to ask him and be serious about training
     

Share This Page