This is THE cooles thing since Mr. Miyagi catching an arrow in Karate Kid 4 ...except cooler cuz its real [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouU19zvF9xk&NR"]YouTube[/ame] Im pretty sure that many of you have seen this next clip before but i thought id post it anyways ... its scary (and cool...mostly cool) how powerful a katana is ... 50-cal machine gun bullets just getting cut like butter [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdF9k0HVn7E"]YouTube[/ame] also 9mm bullets [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNlPtJLmht0&mode=related&search="]45 Cal Gun Vs Katana - YouTube[/ame] Enjoy! :woo:
There was a "Karate Kid 4"? Missed that one thank flip. Okay, the skill suposedly being demonstrated is known as "Yadomejutsu" - Arrow Stopping Skill. However, speaking as a student of Kyudo, the technique being used to draw back the bow is incorrect. In real terms, the bow is hardly being drawn back at all. Also, Tanaka Midori, the female practitioner using the bow is not using a Yugake (glove) or any equivalent but is drawing the string with her fingertips. Any Kyudoka will tell you that it is incredibly difficult to draw the bow properly without using a Yugake and correct body positioning. The end result is that the arrow is being shot in a very weak way, resulting in the velocity of the arrow being minimal. This makes it much easier to see in flight. Look at the flight path of the arrows; they are passing through an arc towards the target instead of travelling in a straight line. Again, this makes the arrows very easy to see in flight. Now yes, it could be argued (and has been before now) that Tanaka Midori is not shooting correctly because she doesn't want to kill the target, her father Tanaka Fumon. Personally I don't buy this but your mileage may vary of course. If you want to see some real Yadomejutsu being practiced, research the Maniwa Nen Ryu. IIRC, both the ryu and Yadomejutsu are covered in Donn Draeger's book "Classical Bujutsu".
That's the thing, it's not real. Take another look at the way Tanaka Midori looses her arrows - The bow isn't at full extension. Look at the slow arc in which the arrow falls after being loosed. They're doing a parlour trick really. This actual trianing exercise has been lifted from an obscure koryu bujutsu ryuha called Maniwa Nen-ryu. Maniwa Nen-ryu call the exercise "Yadomejutsu" （矢留術）: Lit. Arrow stopping art/technique. It's unknown if Maniwa Nen-ryu still train in yadomejutsu at this point in time, but when they did, they used tampoya (padded arrows) for safety and would fire with the yumi at full extension. I used to have some VHS footage of that from the 1970's.
For those that have never seen what full extension is in kyudo, here is an example. Compare it with what she is doing.
I can't view the video (works connection blocks 'Youtube') so I can't comment directly on the specific subject. However, I can say that some years ago a couple of my sensei tried this technique out in a sort of 'myth-busters' excercise. Now obviously the kyudoka didn't shoot at the iaidoka but rather aimed to miss, which undermines the principle of the test a bit but it still remains largely valid. They concluded that at close range, if the arrow was shot properly, then the swordsman's skill almost becomes irrelevant as by the time you realise that the bows released then the arrow is past you - in other words you had to begin cutting prior to the release. Even at long range they still concluded that unless you had a contrived situation (like the test) where both the bowman and the swordsman knew what was coming, then yado was not a good choice for defence - along the lines of "If you have time to cut at it then you might as well move out of the way". This is not to denegrate the skill involved even in a demonstration 'set-up' tho'. It might not be a particularly useful battlefield trick but it is an impressive achievement nontheless.
Anyone who thinks a swordsman has a chance against a competent archer is obviously smoking crack. A fully pulled bow releases such a velocity on the arrow that it's pretty damn hard to see the arrow coming. Certainly through the ages there were many swordsmen that never saw them coming. If you're a bettin' man... don't lose your money on the swordsman... by the time he got anywhere even remotely close to striking range a competent archer could have make him look like a pincushion. Seriously - the amount of arrows a good archer can loose accurately in a very short amount of time is astounding.
Or even better... Full Auto Angel .68 paintball marker with paintballs left in the freezer overnight VS swordsman.
As I fight in a (WMA)system that invorporates both swords and arrows into the sparring (Nordic Hærkamp-style), and since I both use ash-bow and fence with sword; I'd like to comment on this thread: It's all about distance. An archer vs a swordman on grappeling-range is doomed. On any other ranges, the swordman is :woo: (unless he wears full plate armor, or the archer miss and don't get time to reload) Just to comment the links glorifying katana; the europeans did the same previously. There are sources that indicates that entertainers toured the countryside showing how an european sabre could cleave full plate armor. (The plate armor was of course a fake, but it have contributed to the faults in many fantasy roleplay-systems, that a sword can cut through metal (and survive/do damage on the innside)
That just about sums it up. Is there anyone who disagrees? I'd actually love to see a different opinion
Try hold down "CTRL" when while you click on the link and hold it till a window pops up... this ususally works.. but not always. I was wondering why she hadnt drawn the bow full length and why i could actually see the whole arrow - not just a blurr in the screen. There was a Karate Kid 4... with Hillary Swank as the new kid... i think that was her Enough said about that video ... did you guys see the others? Of course even if a katana is able to cut a bullet in half, the swordsman would still be dead ... IF HE'S both fast and stupid enough to try block a bullet with a sword lol .... and the gunman walks away like nothing happened lol
Thing about the guns vs the katana - they are controlled conditions, with the 9mm being test conditions. With the 9mm at least, the gun is lined up to fire straight at the edge. If the angle was out by a few degrees the katana would probably have not survived. What most people dont realise is that theres a big difference between test- or controlled conditions and "real life". Aye, the katana can cope with being shot directly, but outside of the lab or whatever nobody would shoot straight at it - they would aim for the person actually holding the katana. I havent checked out the arrow one yet as I'm in Uni and the connection at the halls is crap. Will post my opinions tomorrow if it loads overnight.
Stolenbjorn, So in the image you've posted... surely they're not firing live arrows during some sort of reenactment?!?
I thought even full plate wasn't a match for certain bows. I'm pretty sure for crossbow, but not sure if longbow was also stronger.
I believe the English longbow can easily penetrate even the strongest plate armour at its most effective range. However you have to remember that plate armour's other defence against arrows was their ability to it off depending on the angle. Thats why armourers made the breastplates rounded... so that it minimized the chance of an arrow actually penetrating the steel. The soldier would also feel a shock if the arrow did not penetrate...sometimes knocking him off balance - like kevlar - , absorbing the pressure of the arrow on the armour and saving his life.
I think the jury is still out on this. I've seen evidence either way quoted ad nauseum. From "The Weapons that Made Britain", it seems that some plate was reasonably impervious to the longbow, even at optimal firing distance, with a dead-on shot. Not that anything on the History Channel is by nature accurate, mind you. Their episode on the sword (longsword, mostly) was pretty decent, with no glaring errors that I can remember, FWIW. In the series, they do a bit on a battle at Verneuil (?) where mercenaries in state-of-the-art Italian harness were unharmed by the English archers, even at close range. -Mark (who would love to have a set of harness)
This topic have been discussed on several threads over several pages in swordforum.com, and I belong to those that sais that under ideal circomstances can a heavy (massive iron) crossbowbolt penentrate plate armor at short ranges. The one I've posted a picture on in a previous post have fired arrows from an 80lbs bow on a gamberson (textile layers only!) at 10 yards distance, and it did hardly penentrate. I allso know of people ramming spears into plate, lobbing spears into plate and shooting arrows at plate and on most occations the results are: *arrow beeing deflected, hardly leaving a scratch on the plate *arrow fragmenting on impact *arrow breaking on impact *jarvelin bending on impact *jarvelin breaking on impact Theese are results conducted on imobilized targets that are pinned in place. Mind the fact that under battlefield-conditions, targets move and give way. Now one could say that the medieval britons knew of secrets ways of making magical bows that we now don't know how to make, or that the modern metal used in modern armor-replica is thicker/of better quality than in the old times, but using 500 years old armor is imorral, and besides the quality have deteriorated, so results conducted on authentic armor will allso be inaccurate. Allso mind the fact that plate was never worn without panzer/panzer+mail beneath. -and before some come dragging with Agincourt; that battle was partly won by british archers, yes, but (contrary to popular belief) -not because they vollied the plated french knights into oblivion, but because their presence (and the presence of mud) made it impossible to use horses, and because they defeated exhausted and crammed plated knights in close comat, using picks, daggers and clubs The bow is an awsome weapon, and it contributed to many victories, mainly from hitting in the odd weak-spot, while taking out the mount, or killing the lighter armoured flanks/skirmishers.
