Sword/Geom Practise and Purpose

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by SsangKall, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    so i saw master gause's video on youtube of my instructor in modesto (california, 1988?) and decided to put one up with part one and two of our ssang jang geom hyeong being performed at corpus cristi. at the bottom of the comments on the modesto clip a 'dragon' says that sword practise helps the wrists. i thought this was great. personally, i do sword cuts with a 25lb dumbell as master yang taught me to build wrist and arm strength. any other thoughts on sword practise as it could relate to a syllabus that is:
    a) intended to be progressional in depth
    b) intended to help a person live a healthier life
    c) whatever they think sword practise is for

    again, here is the clip

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romQAsmEurU&feature=youtube_gdata"]YouTube- ssang jang geom hyeong[/ame]
  2. KJMS

    KJMS Valued Member

    Just BEAUTIFUL as always..Do you have all of the Corpus Christi video?

  3. WalkInPeace

    WalkInPeace Valued Member

    Interesting idea, practicing with the weights. I'll have to try that. I've always tried to use practice swords of varying weight when working on forms.

    When I first learned the sword form, I used a very heavy wooden sword to build up strength and endurance. However, once I used a lighter sword, I noticed I didn't have the fine control I thought I had - I had been using the momentum of the sword and gotten used to it.

    Now I try to switch, so that I can get a feel for the movements instead of for the sword.
  4. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Then it's apparent, WIP, that you never had the opportunity to learn from master Marlin Sims. IIRC, he uses a barbell (minus the weights attached at the ends) to practice the sword mediation movements. Granted, a heavy metal rod won't be as *balanced* as a mok-geom or even as a suburito, but since most classic barbells are about 10-15 lbs. it's quite a workout. :whistle: :lifting:
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  5. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I hope people are reading Unknown's post. I'll share this little bit and then I'll shut-up.

    Snapping a sword around in the air is NOT the same as using it as a weapon. If the goal of a person is to snap an item around, ballistically, then, by all means its important to build-up strength in the forearms and hands in order to keep that item under control at high velocity. However, I will say again that this is NOT the same as using it as a weapon.

    In the YON MU KWAN we have validation cutting, which requires that a person be able to cut various materials with a SHIN GEOM (lit "live blade") in order to authenticate that their technique is able to cut something. A majority of the folks at the school where I trained were quite sure that because their technique was fast in sparring that they would have no problem cutting a target.

    Surprise, surprise.

    They left GEOM BEOP after a week or so in frustration because they were fast, but could not cut a target.

    There are particular biomechanics required to use a sword as a weapon and these require suppleness in the conditioning rather than strength. Many strokes with a lighter item such as a heavy MOK GEOM is far better than fewer strokes with a heavy item. Its also less damaging to the wrists and elbows for later on in life.

    I now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion.

    Best Wishes,

  6. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Since Bruce mentioned sparring with swords, I'll be adamant in bringing up again, the linked training equipment below. Anyone ever bite the bullet and procure merchandise from 'Lancelot' Chan Ying Chih?

  7. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    on vhs my roommate has it, but i haven't transferred it to digital yet (waiting on master yang to see if he has more footage to put on it.
  8. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    is the purpose of sword practise limited to its pre-18th century purpose? what i mean is that focus and what seems to be the pinnacle of left&right body coordination is more important in these times. drums would seem a logical choice to achieve this, as they not only develop muscles for health, but also need focus, rhythm, and total body coordination. as a bonus, the drums also entertain longer than a 75 second form and get other people moving.

    just wondering intended goal of sword practise is and how it is still relevant? also, cutting is a pricey habit, not unlike archery.
  9. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Hey is that a Mexican Submarine Sandwich? :confused:
  10. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Well...A perfect example of why it is practiced is seen in Master Yangs demo. To be that fluid powerful and balanced while doing any hyung not to mention wielding two swords is amazing and not easy. So I would think that performing a sword hyung would be beneficial to your training far more than drumming. However both could be considered a beneficial practise for all of the above reasons.
  11. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I guess the worth is found in how you grab the subject, C-D.

    There is an entire school of thought that reflects on the inter-relationships between biomechanics used for armed and unarmed applications. Formerly, the progression was to teach armed material and the unarmed material was supplementary. With the advent of martial commerce, and the more litigious society, the use of weapons has yielded to the practice of unarmed material and then to unarmed sports. So where does that leave us?

    a.) There are a growing number of martial sports such as KENDO and KUMDO which have given way to similar activities involving pairing various cold weapons against each other. There are also a growing number of re-enactor activities which hope to serve as venues for people interested in researching the combat applications of cold weapons.

    b.) There are a number of groups who seek to preserve and promote the practices of past generations as a way of respecting the heritage that has produced the culture we have today. While there is little possibility of going to war in lamalar armour, mounted and using a lance or re-curved bow, there are still folks (such as yours truly) who hope to preserve something of where we have been to give guidance to where we are going.

    c.) There are also the hobbyists and novelty seekers who may have little interest beyond amuzing themselves or simply satisfying the requirements for advancement in their respective groups or organizations.
    Hope some of this helps.

    Best Wishes,

  12. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Cutting, like board breaking, is a good indication of ones technique development. Yes it can be expensive as is breaking, one doesn't need to be ass deep in mats however to develop good technique. Combined with good instruction, hyung practice, and actual cutting of targets, you can become quite proficient at it.

    Why? IDK why not?

    If it is part of the heritage of your MA then as traditional MAist(using that term loosely as not to start a argument...Bruce :)) we may want to dabble in some of the weapons used by our ancestors to better understand the difficulties and skills they must have encountered.

    That being said I would rather not face an enemy who was wielding sword.
  13. KJMS

    KJMS Valued Member

    You wouldn't happens to see Master Chae Choon Park on that video too?
    Corpus Christi 84-85 should have KSN,Chae Choon Park,Soon Woo Lee,and....me.Jay Lee and Marlin Sims and young Chol came down for the demo.


  14. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    I tape my scabbard / handle together and practice my movements with the extra weight of the scabbard (taped - so it won't fly off). A trick I learned in the Marines - practicing sword manual with the scabbard on...IT WORKS!
  15. KJMS

    KJMS Valued Member

    Well said Obewan:cool: Master Yang swordmanship and Kicking ability is extremely powerful..yet,done with grace.Note: look closely how his shoulders and the height thru-out the whole form.

    I had the honor to learn 4 different version of chung gum hyung from Master Yang.Have never failed me in "open" tourney.D@%$# how times fly.



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