Switching from TABG to Cobras?

Just my thoughts on this:
Does trying your "best" earn you and black belt and in many cases the capability to eventually teach?
Do we want their potential students perfectly performing flawed techniques they are taught by someone who tried their best?[/QUOTE]

Technical skill and physical ability are two different things. Often I've found remove the power and the skill rises. It's why some women are amazing to watch when fighting, same a some kids. They know they don't have the power, which is often a great equaliser in semi-contact (the irony)
Still win

 

Not if you actually follow the core points of what Gen choi defined as sparring! The orgs have made it that way!

Ahem! Breaking and contact levels ;-)

Maybe.. or it maybe some other reason!!!

In all seriousness, are there any TAGB Dan grading videos on youTube? Do they allow filming? If not, why not? - I ask, as I have heard a few things (mostly from disgruntled Ex-TAGB'ers I must say), but would love to see an actual video of a TAGB grading myself.

Stuart

 

Thing is I think the TAGB (apart from that self defence claim) have it about right. I went too far, I know that now but I like the TAGB model. If I had enough money to recreate it for MMA I reckon I could be a mllionare

Is the martial arts the best? In some cases it'd be hard to beat. Are there people that pass that shouldn't? Of course but a big deal to them. Will they last? I'm not sure it matters? They did something?

All depends on what you think of a colour?

 

Technical skill and physical ability are two different things. Often I've found remove the power and the skill rises. It's why some women are amazing to watch when fighting, same a some kids. They know they don't have the power, which is often a great equaliser in semi-contact (the irony)
Still win [/QUOTE]

My apologies for the miss communication but I wasn't referring to competition sparring and such. Of course in that sense trying your best is all anyone can demand.
I was referring to passing a child to a regular Black belt grade when they have gaps in their knowledge base because of limitations of their age, whether its a First Aid Cert, knowledge of how to properly train someone, complete understanding of mechanics. I have seen kids who are incredibly flexible get away with performing techniques effectively with flaws because of that flexibility. In this sense they tried their best based on the comprehensive art but still need to fill in the gaps as they progress.

Edit: didn't intend to mess up my quote of you it seems your post picked up my earlier ones issues

 

Is this in reply to me? If so, can you expand your points a little (well, even if not).

Why do you feel they have it about right?
What is their model?
What did you go too far about?
Why would their model make you a millionaire if applied to MMA?
Is the martial arts the best! Do you mean 'their'?
Hard to beat in what way?
Think of a colour!!! You mean think a black belt represents right?

Stuart

 

Sorry to quote myself, but update - I did a Youtube search and only found a (10 year old no less) doing a BB grading, but it was only his (1) pattern. And a white belt grading (which looked massive from the amount of youngsters seated).

Stuart

 

I know we agree here, but as you say - different discussion.

Not sure which sparring elements are actually in the video - we have various models - one is strictly 'light contact' (so we can see technique better), another is 'sport type' - however, without seeing a comparative, its all to easy to say that or simply figure that! You might be correct or might not be, I don't know - I do know them boys went through 2.5 hours of a grading, so were probably knackered with a capital K

I not questioning the merits/demerits of it, or the rules for the sport stuff, just that its a different level for kids, than it is for adults - whether within the context of 'semi-contact' or not (which is actually an incorrect term for it btw )

That old chestnut eh! And yet theres loads of videos from TAGB competitions that have way more people in them and non-TAGB folk as well - explain that one!

Sure, I get that. Thats why some videos would be good to counter such things! You know, in my old org, after a BB grading they always posted in the news letter .. "as always, filmed for posterity" and whilst they did film them, no one ever got a copy, which I always felt was a shame and why (in part) I started filming mine.

Maybe... did they tell you that directly though? I actually know of someone that left cos they PASSED their 2nd dan grading!! lol

Stuart

 

Thanks everyone - my friend read through the thread, and says you've given him great food-for-thought.

 

Very good. But heres my final thoughts on your original post (IMHO).

Nothing - a BB gains respect these days due to their own standards. All orgs have VERY good BB's and average (even poor) BBs - the BB is no longer the torch bearer it once was.

Yes/No - by who! Chadders has a point - young BB's do not have the same aspect of respect that older BB's have - just how it is - the child can make up for that in skill/will however - and obviously as he gets older. It will be the same whether TAGB, Cobra or anyone else!

Bottom line is - if you are happy with his teacher and feel your friends son is and will continue to develop and get decent under him - why change clubs? An org does not make a decent BB - an instructor does!

Well, thats my tuppence on it anyway

Stuart

 

Just to clarify, we are in agreement on this. In my opinion it is the teacher, and not the org, that makes the training. And as long as your skills match up with the requirements I don't see why a cobra Black belt shouldn't transfer to TAGB or any other org.

 

Not had a 9 year old take a black belt grading (doubt I ever will), but the kids don't do the same grading or receive the same belt as an adult black belt.

I`m surprised Mr Vice hasn't been rolled over the cobbles then!

Must be a different conversation, as mine was after a phone call (funnily enough asking about Cobra amongst other things).

Stuart

 

I have a fair idea of what that is. Basically it means that the parents pay a lot of money for their kid to be guaranteed a trophy of some description. Technique, best hair etc. The mums and dads are very proud as is the child.

A quick word by comparison, my own club wouldn’t let my little girl grade to her yellow tag because her four direction punch was sloppy. She was upset but the instructor was correct. She now has it down perfectly and will grade in march (4 Months after starting).

By comparison my friends kid would have graded about four times (UITF). I can’t work out the grades. They have junior grades and then adult grades. I have seen the white belt with blue stripe for the juniors, and similar crazy colours for the adults.

My own org is causing some unrest among some seniors as well to be sure just grumblings at the moment of someone or some group attaining BB that other BB’s feel they shouldn’t have. Real problem for them is the BB test used to be 8 hours, brought down to 6 and now 4.

Baza

 

Thought of some more facets I'd have in a full blackbelt grading that would preclude children from completing one.

I think I'd have a 1000-1500 word essay on a part of the martial arts that interests them. I want to know that my blackbelts are engaged with what they are doing, thinking things through and forming their own opinions. It'd be a rare 12 year old that could do that I think.

I'd also have a prospective BB take a few classes, take people through a warm up and basic training. I don't think kids should be in charge of adults so that cuts them out of that process.

People are focusing on making a full black belt an adult thing to achieve as if doing so would be detrimental to the kids that are excluded?

But actually by separating a junior BB from a full BB you could go further into tailoring each to the correct demographic so both get as much out of it as they can.

Making sure the adult grading included all the techniques you can't teach to kids (eye gouges, chokes, crippling jont locks etc). Address sexual crimes, domestic abuse, etc.

But you can also make the Junior BB include things like making sure the kid is doing well at school, being polite at home, eating well, maybe doing something mandatory for charity. Stuff that would be patronising for an adult to have to adhere to but would make for well round junior BB.
Some sort of merit badge system perhaps so it wasn't just about fighting and techniques?
I'd make any junior BB chaperone a complete junior beginner for a month or so. Get them doing the same drills and techniques. Right back to basics. Bit of a sempai/kohai thing going on. Make sure they aren't too big for their boots and full of themselves to go through the simpler (but important stuff) again.
There were many child black belts when I was in the TAGB that suffered from an over-inflated opinion of themselves and their skills (quite a few adults too!).

 

Cubs that can also kickass too!

 

Feel free. Can't help thinking we've done it before though?
Some people are OK with kiddie black belts. Some not. Some prefer a "junior" blackbelt.