Sufi orders and the emergence of islam in Southeast Asia

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Crucible, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    truth shall prevail over falsehood

    assalamalaikum bang kiai carita

    yes u absolutly hit the nail on the head or got to the HEART OF THE MATTER , thank you very much for taking the time to read the posts carefully, you have good heart and perception i agree and concur with your post,!

    however my brother when i refer to silat i am refering to the silat as brought first time to the indo n malay area by the walisongo, the martial arts that existed there before was not known as silat it was termed by other names denoting whom and where the styles came from , ie india kalari china kuntao west java maenpo bali etc mencak sulawesi amenchakm etc etc.

    N ot the physical so calleed martial arts as we know today as being refereed to as silat!

    this board can learn a lot from you even my self !


    :D :love:
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  2. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Where did the Walisongo learn the silat they introduced?
  3. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Hi Wali, the Walisongo did not introduce any major silat form or style although some stories tell about Persian grappling and other arts being brought by them to Jawa. There was already a sophisticated fighting art in Indonesia which took on the arts of China and India long before the wali began their alchemical works in Jawa.

    IMO, the importance of the wali was in preserving silat, not creating it. They alowed silat to become Islamic, like the Jawanese Ramayana and Mahabharata and the keris and the kujang. Without the wali using their power to preserve silat, silat might have dissapeared in Indonesia (Malay world) because it could have easily been branded as pagan.

    However the wali saved Indonesia from that plight and silat in Indonesia became Islamic until recently in history. In Jawa, don't be surprised, the Hindu trinity Trimurti, Brahma, Wisnu and Syiwa, are considered to be Islamic as also all the heroes in Mahabharata and Ramayana. Surrealism if you may, but it saved alot of our culture from puritan and self-righteous but unknowledgeable Islam.

    Kiai Carita.
  4. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi Kiai,

    lol... I am aware of that. I was asking our friend SilatRucy as he made this claim in his post.

  5. britsilatinmt

    britsilatinmt New Member

    nice post kiai...
  6. dark-angle

    dark-angle New Member

    I have heard many people say this, are you saying that the Wali brought alchemical practices to Jawa. I cant see that that could be true because the Indians and Chinese both practice alchemy and they would have brought those teachings to Jawa before the Wali.
  7. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    I've not heard these terms - hikmah, ilim and amal before. Please can you explaint them?
  8. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Kiai, thanks for your reply. It is good to hear the view that it is spirituality in general that is essential to the nature of Silat, rather than a particular religion. Fortunately this is a view that my teacher and his teachers share.

    I am still curious as to whether this is a view shared by those who believe that Silat is an Islamic art? I am not asking this to be argumentative - but in a genuine effort to understand the views of my Silat brothers. If anyone prefers to answer this question privately, please feel free to PM me.

    Kiai - you mentioned an unfortunate story of patricide in Silat in the USA. Can you tell me more about this (or point me in the right direction)?
  9. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    salaams to all my brothers and sister on this forum

    when i refer to wali songo silat i mean that the spiritual side that they brought, i agree wholehearted that walisongo didnot bring silat in the physical terms of the art but there silat was solely based on devine inspiration and that devine inspiration became movements of self defence ie their silat they did not have jurus and buahs etc to learn! this spiritual component was later added to physical martial arts systems that already existed in indo and malaya.

    brother pete hikmah =wisdom ilim =knowledge/science amal=practicse hope this help.

    wali if you read my post on true walisongo geaneology you wouldnt have to ask, yes they come from india, but before that they came from the arab lands as arabs with silat (ilmu bathin ) already mastered!

    brother pete please refer to my posts on silat kalimah on islam n silat thread, i respect your adab and reciprocate your wishes with an open heart!

    salaams :Angel: :love:
  10. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member


    In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

    Assalaamualaikum to all muslim and Hi to all truth seeking pesilat melayu,

    “The term means the method that is followed and occurs in the relationship between Allah and man caused by their attitude and their actions towards the law of Allah sent down through His prophets that lay down Allah’s responses to man on earth and in hereafter.”

    Sunahtullah are therefore fixed truth about the rules of Allah that will happen uin response to specific behaviour and actions of man.

    What is its correlation to SILAT? If it is to be part of din islam, the “spirit” of the word must reflects the fundamental of the religion.

    S -yariat (Rule of Allah / Sunatullah),

    I -badah (worship),

    L -aku (moral),

    A -kidah (creed / belief) and,

    T -akwa (fear).

    Everything that happens in this world follow certain set patterns. Nothing ever occurs by chance or by coincidence. Rule of Allah or His Sunatullah.

    Al-Ahzab (The Confederates) 33:62
    That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old, and you will not find any change in the way of Allah.
  11. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Dark-angle, if you got the idea that I was saying that before the wali there were no alchemists in Jawa, you did not get me right. Of course there were many alchemists in Jawa before the wali began practising. None were called alchemists though, before or after the wali. Only recently has the term alchemy been used in public space in Indonesia.

    As far as I know the only person to make a public exhibition of alchemy in Jawa to date was yours truly, beginning in several exhibitions titled 'Keringat Rakyat', 'Rupa Rupa Untuk Maysaroh', 'Ilmu Tai Jadi Emas', 'Al Kimiya', and 'Masturbasi Reformasi' all done around 1998-1999 in Yogyakarta and Ngawi.

    The art of transformation was practised long before the wali came to Jawa. In many Jawa legends you will find the telling of the practise of the art of transformation. Aji Saka from India, Prabu Mahagunggung and Dewi Sri from Medangkamulan, Mpu Baradah from Atasangin, Erlangga from East Jawa, Mpu Supa Mandrangi, Ni Mbok Sombro from Pajajaran, were all aknowledged to have done alchemical feats and their works can still be found today.

    Kiai Carita.

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