Sufi orders and the emergence of islam in Southeast Asia

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Crucible, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    Its my understanding that Islam was spread to Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philipines by Sufi missionaries. Does anyone know what Sufi orders were in the archipelago's at what times, and what parts of Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philipines specific orders went to? Thank you. I'm also curious what orders you can find in Malaysian, Indonesia and the Philipines today.
  2. krys

    krys Valued Member

    There are naqshbandi suffis in Indonesia and Malaysia.
  3. onebir

    onebir Valued Member

    Last edited: Dec 20, 2004
  4. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    Seni Silat Melayu True Sufi Silat

    "Meditation in Motion" ~ "The Art of Spiritual Warrior" ~ "Movement Therapy"

    As our teacher states, "see and do"; Don't think about it, analyze it, compare Simply, "see and do."

    "Meditation in Motion" is about becomimg conscious of one's Breath and Energy, while learning to experience the Present Moment.

    "Meditation in Motion" trains students through the music, dance and martial arts of Indonesian & Malaysia, otherwise known as the art of "Seni Silat MELAYU~ The Art of Truth".

    Students go through movement exercises which train the coordination of the hands and feet, while also balancing both "sides of the brain".

    Students are also introduced to Sensitivity & Awareness training methods.

    Students are furthermore trained to move "with feeling, in balance, and for a purpose".

    "Meditation in Motion" is not just dance. The movements are drawn from the martial art of Pencak Silat, and nevertheless, are practical & effective applications used in the realm of self defense and combat.

    Yet, beyond this aspect of the art, "Seni Silat Haqq" is a Spiritual Martial Art.

    Practitioners in the Old Country are referred to as "Spiritual Warriors" upholding Sufi Chivalry, Honor, Respect and the Pusaka.

    "Seni Silat MELAYU" Masters are the spiritual guides & natural healers of their respective communities.

    "Meditation in Motion" is about:
    Balancing your Senses (Mind, Body & Spirit)
    Learning ways to build & sustain one's energy level, sense of direction and focus
    Un-learning bad habits & unhealthly patterns of behavior
    Being in Present Time, aware of every Breath
    Discovering your Higher Self
    Connecting to your True Reality
    Opening the "Eyes of the Heart"
    Dissolving the Veils of Existence
    Traveling the Inner Journey towards the Divine
    Yet, above and beyond all,

    "Seni Silat MELAYU ~ The Art of Truth ~ Meditation in Motion" is about ....... ~ The Experience ~

    As a Spiritual Teacher once said:
    "I'm not going to teach you anything, because what I teach you will forget.
    Instead, what I will give you are experiences......

    And from Tradition it is said:

    "Silat is not something you do, Silat is something you become......."
    :Angel: :woo:
  5. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    What Wali was saying is that despite the 'relevant information' in your posts..... a single post of over 6,590 words, is VERY unlikely to be read..... let alone 4 or 5 of them in a row.

    I ask that you summerise your points into decent sized posts 200 words or less, and if someone wants clarification of the points/information, THEN you can reference your source. There is no harm in saying something like:

    "Such and such a book" says this on the topic....... and leave it at that....

    I'll re-open this in a couple hours after I have a better look at the posts already made.
  6. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    Opened again, FOR NOW.

    I re-iterate my request for shorter posts, or the thread gets killed permanently.
  7. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    judge not lest you are judged yourself

    hello silat pupil

    why all the commotion about the posts concerning sufism. you said you will read and decide whether the thread gets killed or not . i sense there is some sort of discreet discrimination going on. let me put it frankly in all my travels to malaysia indonesia philipines i have trained with very reputable gurus of both the christian muslim and hindu agama silat for over 35 yrs. after a long reasearch they all honestly said that silat proper came with the advent of sufism and the walisongo, and before that the arts were more from india ie kalaripyattu AND TERMED BY OTHER NAMES BUT REALM SILAT SPIRITUAL IS ISLAMIC!

    i just dnt understand sorry to put it frankly who you think you are , let the members of the board decide if my posts are relevant , what is your background in silat? who are you to judge, my posts even if there long people still read them having looked at the viewing counter. MUST I ADD THAT MEMBERS OF THE SILAT COMMUNITY HERE AND ABROAD HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS THREAD AND ARE DISGUSTED OBVIOUSLY BY THIS SORT OF DISCRIMINATING BEHAVIOUR!

    True pesilats allways show adab towards oneanother as adab is the very essence of silat.............WHERE HAS ALL YOUR ADAB GONE?????

  8. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    SilatRucy, you say you have been training silat for over 35 years but you were born in the 80's? ...

    I don't agree that before the wali came to Jawa there was no spiritual silat. The wali and also Zheng He's armada which was active in the Indonesian archopelago in the 1400's certainly brought new blood in to silat and consolidated society after the upheavals of the fall of Majapahit, but they did not introduce Jawa to the art of prayer in movement.

    The wali are revered and loved in Jawa because they preserved alot of the old Jawa wisdom and gave it a new form, compatible with Islam. The wali ensured that Jawa still has its gamelan, wayang, and kebatinan, and the Hindu epics Mahabharata and Ramayana are still used as inspiration and guidance by Jawa Muslims. In other places the coming of Islam often meant the complete destruction of the previous culture that was there before Islam came, but in Jawa the wali guarded the aculturation process so that there was a continuation of the culture and the wisdom within it.

    Most traditional silat players in Jawa are now Muslim and in West Jawa, in the Cimande region, there is a saying that means, silat without sholat is evil, sholat without silat is weak.

    Walisongo silat does not exist in Jawa but it is a big school in London. Apparently there is no direct connection to the legend or history of the wali. The silat taught by the Walisongo team in London originated from Ma Prem, a lady pendekar from Holland who felt that the Walisongo looked after her while she practised her silat, far from home. The name Walisongo there is a dedication, not a claim of originality.

    Kiai Carita.
  9. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    You want the blatant honest answer? I didnt read your posts. I removed them as they were complete copy/paste of other articles from places other than here/yourself. With that in mind, I, with the backing of the Admin here decided there could be possible copyright issues, and as such removed the posts. As I would have done for ANYONE who posted in the manner you did.

    I have no quarrel with your idea that Silat is Islamic, I never disputed it. My dispute was with your posting manner, not the content. Had you done as I requested from the first post, there would be no quarrel, which means simply, you brought this 'issue' on yourself, with your own attitude.

    People who cry discrimination the loudest, are often those who discriminate the most. You judge my right to make editorial decisions here on my background on Silat???? And you dare call me discriminatory!!

    Fair enough tho..... I have and currently still do train with/under Pendekar William Sanders, Guru Liam McDonald, Guru Robert Scott, Guru Denny and Guru Richard McNeice. While I have only studied a short length of time, and make NO claims to my superiority as you do ..... I am by no means an ignorant noob who feels in any way intimidated by your pathetic posturing and bravado.

    Yours Respectfully,
  10. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    Asalaamalaikum bang Kiai Carita

    Maaf zaahir dan bathin.! I apologise for my details being incorrect as i do not wish to disclose them at this precise moment but rest assured that i will do in the present future! 35 yrs was a typing error approx 20 yrs is more correct my apologies again!

    I absolutly agree with you that there was spiritual martial arts in indonesia , however in regards to the noun silat it can be found in old bugis literture of sulawesi! however it is not found else where apart from malaysia look at my posting in regards to walisongo lineage! This is because the great wali Sheik Yusuf Makkassar took islam and sufi islamic spiritual martial art ie silat there sulawesi albeit indonesia! However i must also add that the bugis were very feared warriors before the advent of islam there! H owever there ancient religon was neither buddist animist but was realy sivaite and from the ila galigoo one of the longest epics in the world! Later migrations took plsace by the walisongo from malaysia to sumatera and jawa!

    My point is that the spiritual martial art was more or less based around the old beliefs ie buddism and hinduism especially the tantric vajrayana path and most were an composite system of chinese indian and other arts in jawa and sumatra ! OnLY WITH THE ARRIVAL WITH THE WALIS DID SILAT PROPER AS WE KNOW IT TODAY WAS PROPOGATED, and even got integrated with the local belief systems a kind of old and knew coming together to form such kejawen systems however there are still pure walisongo systems out there but rest assured you will not learn physical jurus as such but the more interms of sufism and its ultimate weapon of purity and reliance on zikr of allah subahnatala! However certain schools have as a prerequisite a physical training to test the character of the prospective student and also to make his jasad body ready and capable of reicieving spiritual transmissions of a martial nature. Kejawen was even practicised by the much respected catholic preist Guru Romo of tunggal hati seminari and his expeiriences of kejawen led him to formulate his silat!


    I am very happy to learn that they have retracted these claims albei through you but never the less as the saying goes bettter late then never!

    I am very happy to have been in communication with you any criticisms of my post is much welcomed!


  11. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    The final say of the content posted on this forum is down to the Admin team. SilatPupil was acting with our full co-operation, and edited down your posts because:

    a) They were massive
    b) They were copyrighted articles copied and pasted from elsewhere
    c) Rather than gracefully move on, you started shouting all over the place.

    Thats all there is to it. If you choose to read more into it, so be it, but rubbing the staff up the wrong way and accusing them off all sorts isn't going to help your longevity on this site.
  12. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    Salaams Silat pupil

    My apologies there was a misunderstanding please forgive me, but please do say hi to bill liam andrew my very good friends from me! i enjoy your hikmah, adab and amal !

    hormat :cool:
  13. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member



    copyright is only breached if there is no reference to the material , if your admin checked closly they would see that all material was referenced and has been accepted on other silat forums such as the kps nusantara webpage where abang ong is the admin , if they havbe not had problems with it and infact have welcomed the material in the past as it saves a lot of truth seeking pesilat time and energy.

    however if the admin in all their wisdom should decide to ban that is their perogative!


    :p :love:
  14. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin


    Copyright is breached when you reproduce without permission from the owner of the original material.

    Whether it has been accepted on other forums or is irrelevant and "the admin" doesn't have the time to check around other forums to make sure your posts are in order.

    We've had removal notices from copyright holders in the past asking use to remove user posted content, much like yours from our site, and thus we do not permit it. Its not worth us potentially getting sued over.
  15. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member


    Salaams wrong

    point taken you are quite correct ! however is it Wrong with permission , im sorry to say but a lot of the judgement here i see is done with assumption and hearsay, or maybe im wrong again? or maybe the Right question should be asked would he post without permission?

  16. pete_e

    pete_e New Member


    Without involving myself in the debate on copywrited material (I'll leave that to the admin staff) can I humbly suggest that the easiest solution is to provide a brief post summarising the point that you wish to make, and provide a link to the reference material that backs up your point. Those interested enough in the subject can and will follow the links, whilst others with slightly less interest (or time to spend) in the subject can still follow the crux of the discussion and learn from it, and the admin staff can enjoy a quiet life! Everyone wins :D

    I have no doubt that your effort in providing supporting material for your well-researched points of view will earn you much respect on this board and doubtless create some lively debate too. Please just remember that respect is a 2 way thing - if you want people to respect your opinions, even if they disagree with them, you need to return the favour.

    Peace & Respect!
  17. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    If you have the relevant permission, please forward it to me at

    Even then, posting 6,000+ word posts is still discouraged.
  18. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Is it fair to say that you see today's Silat as being inextricably linked to Islam? If so, can you explain what aspects of Silat I am missing out on, if I am not muslim?

    If, as a non-muslim, I receive a true transmission of a recognised Silat system from someone qualified and approved to teach the system, is what I do still Silat?
  19. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    The period between the coming of Islam in Jawa in the 15th century, to the coming of the Japanese military in 1942, can be said to be the period when Islam became the main source of silat spiritualism. All traditional silat in West Jawa, Padang, and Sulawesi, have Islam as their spiritual guide. In fact most silat schools in Indonesia require faith in Allah and His Rasul.

    After WWII and independence, and also after those who oppossed Indonesia's Independence went back to Holland and, finding racism, nostalgically came back to their silat, the sources of spiritualism in silat changed again.

    Nowadays you find Catholic Silat (Tunggal Hati Seminari), you find Islam silat (Cimande and all West Jawa styles), and Buddhist silat (usually these ate kung-fu based silat, developed by Indo-Chinese). In the West you might also find silat without the spiritualism addvertised as a devastating martial art or something in thar line. I would say that silat without spiritualism is not really silat, but merely fighting techniques. The science there is merely at the level of the art to kill and not yet the art of bringing to life. There is the tragic story of patricide in silat in the USA which can be taken as a warning to all silat learners that studying silat without the kebatinan is dangerous.

    Silat is not an Islamic art if you use the word Islam strictly to refer to the religion brought by Muhammad (peace be upon him). Silat was around in Jawa long before the Prophet Muhammad saw was born in Makkah.

    However Islam has a different meaning, a generic meaning, which is to submit wholeheartedly to the will of Allah. In this sense, Islam is akin to Tao, and is understood as deeper universal truths, rather than a particular tradition of beliefs. If you mean this when you say silat is an Islamic art, then yes, all silat must be Islamic. Silat can not go against the laws of the Universe such as the physical laws like gravity, or the spiritual laws like love, patience and so on.

    Kiai Carita.
  20. SilatRucy

    SilatRucy Valued Member

    definition of silat?

    hello brother pete

    thank you very much for asking a worthwhile question it is much apppreciated!

    the answer to this question lies in ones definition of silat?

    transmission of physical martial art by means of imitation of teacher , may or maynot be held as true silat,however silat as i know it is a non physical transmission of true hikmah and ilim before any socalled amal!

    what is pencak seni and silat?

    just a little something to ponder on!

    will chat soon, however please refer to my earlier posts as i have answered most of your questions there if imy posts have not been deleted!



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