Success in flexibility after being totally inflexible

Aw man, you just broke my irony meter.

 

Cor Van! You managed to wind him up.

Maybe it was the two-thousand quid you wanted for a pose of your pretty-self

 

Amongst all the silliness this awesome post got overlooked...

Van Zandt, up to day 3 ive been following your program. While I do trust you I was pleasantly surprised to see my hamstring didn't explode doing the dynamic stuff within 10 mins of waking up and actually set me up for my day better than a coffee (still had a coffee too, im not crazy)

So with regards to what you where saying about max strength and relaxed stretching, while doing relaxed stretching on the agonists prior to a strength movements is generally regard as a bad idea and I agree it probably is, what where you getting at with regards to strength increases with relaxed stretches? interested to hear what that is all about (inner nerd is 'cited)

since ive started training ive always liked stretching antagonist between sets for certain movements, particularly pec stretches between sets of rows and lat stretches between sets of overhead presses. ive found its a good way to sneak in some extra mobo work and helps get better activation in the rows and bar speed in the presses. /offtopic

anyway my days 'get stretchy' work went like this, would you say this followed the right tracks/is likely to help someone whos rigidity is rivalled only by Keanu Reeves' acting.

5am: wake up, down a pint of water
all in one set:
10-15 swings knee high swinging backwards for hip flexor too
10-15 the same but hip hight
10-15 the same high as I can,
10-15 stepping into it really throwing the leg up high as possible, silently admit VZ was right, remind yourself to thank him

the same swinging to the side, swing right across to get TFL involved too.

630-7 am roughly
the same kicks
30 metres of bodyweight 1 legged RDL walk
30 metres of Samson stretch walk (deep lunge for hip flexor stretch, hands go up in the air, step the back leg through and grap the knee to pull into a glute stretch)
mobility WOD 'pre squat hip opener'
50 PVC pipe shoulder disocates
20 PVC overhead squats
3x20 band pull aparts
super set with
3x10 cossak squats

pre cardio (around 1pm)
all the kicks again.

post cardio
relaxed

missed the gym but still did mobility work
all the kicks
(would normally have lifted here)
isometrics.


admittedly that was a particularly good day, on a good day I would normally get 2 -3 10 min slots to loosen up. pre lift, in the morn and if I do cardio around then.

 

Relaxed stretching before strength work is (and probably always will be) a grey area. We already know that muscles are less responsive to stimulation from several seconds up to five minutes following a relaxed stretch (due to impaired activation). But this generally refers to maximal force production being impaired by strenuous stretching (when a stretch is held at the pain threshold for 30 seconds or longer). Hell, a study by K.A. Morgan at Eastern Michigan University in 2000 found that maximal force production in the legs might not even be affected at all if the person walks around for several minutes following relaxed stretches and before strength training. In very rare cases (probably the 1 in every 10 clients I deal with who suffer from acute tightness), I'll instruct people to do light relaxed stretches before lifting (light = stretching until you feel a sensation in the muscle and hold for 10-15 seconds). But that is people I work with directly. On forums like this my general rule of thumb is "no relaxed stretching before strength work" because people aren't smart or experienced enough to self-regulate the intensity of stretching relevant to the load they'll be lifting. They get frustrated because there isn't a "one size fits all" answer (is there ever? lol) so I go with safety and provide a blanket answer that will (hopefully) prevent people getting hurt because they don't know how to self-experiment. The biggest problem for most people doing relaxed stretching before strength work isn't the loss of strength, but the risk of injury due to reduction of activation and/or imbalance in activity following their stretching.

The benefits you feel by stretching the antagonists during sets is probably due to the effect of impaired activation on the reciprocal inhibition process (i.e. stretching your triceps between sets of biceps curls - I know, I know, nobody should do biceps curls - allows them to relax, thus facilitating greater contraction force in the biceps).

As for relaxed stretches after a workout, research indicates intense relaxed stretching (see above for my defintion of this) after strength work increases the rate of hypertrophy through the increased activation of satellite cells and the enhanced release of hepatocyte growth factor, myogenin and IGF-1 within the muscles.

Hope that helps?

 

It certainly helped me!
Can't thank you enough for all this information!!

 

No worries.

Though I should probably charge if I want to really monopolise the market

 

yeah 100% mate you awesome.

the antagonist inhibition was my theory too.

everything else, solid gold. legend

 

I was gonna say that I'd started incorporating it into my routine - but that's not true - this is ALL I've been doing over the last day or so...a very nagging, debilitating leg injury of some sort ( don't know what it is, seems a bit like sciatica or isical bursitis ) that has had me stiff as a 3 day old corpse with tetanus.

Free stretching had not worked, only made it to hurt more.

Being nearly besides myself with frustration, I grabbed a resistance band and lied down on the floor and began a couple of sets of different hip flexion type movements. At first, they did not feel too good but as I went on, I was amased to find the pain lessoning.

A few minutes later and I had no pain/stiffness whatsoever and could move about more freely than I had in nearly a week.

Awoke stiff again, so its time to get the bands out.

 

I've just been doing P90X for the past 2 and a half months or so. I went from being pretty inflexible to having good flexibility. I've still got room for improvement, but I'm really satisfied with how far I've come. Best of luck to you

 

Is there a dynamic version of this?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaUbeudAkdI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaUbeudAkdI[/ame]

 

A few comments on that:

The exercise he is showing (with the band) isn't the most effective way to target the hamstrings. The greatest relaxation follows the greatest tension. You need to get into positions that permit you to apply the strongest force on your muscles (usually in a downward direction), thereby allowing you to increase your ROM furthest during the post-contraction stretch reflex depression. The band and lying on one's back won't let you do this. People have to understand it takes a massive amount of tension for isometrics to work - hence why I advise them to use weights too.

Dynamic stretches are specific to the angle of the joint, speed of movement and body position you do them in (i.e. an ability to do a head-height leg swing to the front when standing may not translate to the same ROM when lying down). They should also be specific to your sport/activity - why would you want to do them lying down?

There is a posterior chain musculature mobilisation technique similar to the exercise shown in the video. It relieves muscle stiffness by letting your work the hamstring through full range of motion under constant tension (different to isometrics). Lay on your back and place one end of the band around the centre of your foot (don't place it over your toes or ball of foot, as this pulls the foot into flexion and stretches the calf - something you don't need right now). The other end of the band is attached to a sturdy object past your head. Keep your leg stiff throughout. Pull your foot to the floor (make sure thr band isn't so strong it stops you doing this), then -- keeping your leg straight, remember! -- allow the band to pull your leg back up to end-range hamstring flexibility. Hold the end-range position for a moment before returning your foot to the floor. That completes one rep. Aim to do 60-100 reps on each leg every day, more (reps and applications) if your hamstring flexibility sucks. Go slow (ish) through the movement. You have hit your end-range when you feel a stretching sensation in the muscle, which is way before you hit the pain threshold. The idea is to nudge the end-range limit further every couple of reps.

 

I'm trying hard to visualise this...say I tie one end of the band to the high side of our bed poster, for example, then lie down ( head pointed towards the banded bed-poster ) and tie the other end of the band to the centre of my foot...by placing my foot on the floor, do you mean to say the posterior HEEL ( it would be difficult to keep the leg straight whilst placing the foot flat on the floor...

Do I have this right, then?

 

Like in this image, but the band would be attached to a static object past her head instead of her hands:



Ideally you would do it in a standing position (called a hamstring pulldown) because you want to replicate the positions you use in your sport/activity, but lying down makes it easier due to less structural stress.

 

Whoa! That's... that's a big picture!

 

Alright, then. That's close to what I was thinking you meant. I'll have a go with these, then.

That's a...big woman you have there.

 

VZ would an unloaded single leg deadlift not have the same effect? Or is there less control than with the band?

 

Sure. Working from a standing position is always my preference because it more closely resembles common exercises and everyday life too. But some people have crap balance so they would be better suited for the lying band mobilisation. Single-leg deads are a great precursor to any posterior chain sesh, or any sport requiring good hammie & glute ROM really.

 

I've tried both standing and supine positions...have to say it has a better 'feel' when lying on the back. When standing, there is a point in the movement where the band seems to give way as the foot reaches the floor (i.e. looses its resistance)

 

You tied it to the ceiling in the standing exercise, right?

 

Too lazy to take the heavy bag down off the hanger, I had one of my kids to stand on a table and hold the other end of the band...

And he swears that he's not letting loose