My school is a 3 but with everything centred on patterns (I'm on a crusade ) be it sparring (we tried pattern-based sparring today, very hard but very fun), self-defence, pressure points, whatever.
Mine is centered on sparring. We have some ppl good at patterns though. I find them very amazing. I suck at patterns, and I'm good at drill work and sparring.
Awesome post! That about sums up the state of different TKD school, IMO. My school would fall under the "Progressive" school, however we do practice forms.
Even though I would call our school "progressive", we still do forms, TKD ettiquette, uniforms, one-steps, basic forms and so on... it's just that our end goal is for practical self defence... but we also want to keep the sport side and the traditional side in our system because some students will favor these aspects over others
Hmmm...interesting thought. Is a style a name or is it a way of movement or philosophy. There are certainly many TKD organizations, and some of those organizations train in the same "style" even. For example - Moo Duk Kwan is considered a style, and I know of at least two TKD organizations and multiple Tang Soo Do organizations that are under that Style. I know that is as clear as mud, but maybe you have mud goggles on. LOL
With the current crop of over-generalizing the differences between TKD schools, I hope some people take a look at how diverse TKD schools can be within umbrella organziations and without.
I just started reading this post and I'm completely confused. Would the Song Moo Kwan style fall under ITF or WTF? Does anyone know? There's a school that popped up on my radar but I'm confused. I posted this same question on their facebook page. I think that the style this guy is teaching is a hybrid style of tkd and judo because I saw a few judo throws that I haven't seen in TKD before.
Ok, I just read a decent history of Korean Martial Arts and figured out that most of the Kwans were around before the two Associations formed. However, it looks like when all of the Kwans were unified they were all placed under WTF. Is this correct?
Just received a comment from the instructor and he told me what I had already figured out. That the Kwan TKD were all around before the two organizations were formed. He also told me that, like ITF, all of the Kwans are more self defense and less sport. I know, from reading that they were all merged under the Kukkiwon which is ITF. Does anyone else want to add something to this discussion about Song Moo Kwan? Oh, and the uniforms are different too. His school has red jackets and black pants. I know ITF has all white uniforms and I think most WTF do as well.
Before a meaningful discussion can be had people first need to agree on how terms are defined. 1. What defines a Style 2. What is or what is not TKD? Each of the above are defined along a broad spectrum depending on individual opinions. For # 1, some might say any unique element added to a system creates a unique style. Some might say more is needed. For #2 some might say only one system is TKD and others might say any Korean with a striking system could claim the name. Heck, plenty did after it became popular although originaly resisting or rejecting it. Are the roots of a system undder the Umbrella name of the system developed later? For instance, If you consider Kwan Sysytems that pre date the name TKD to be TKD, then I have to ask if you consider Ju Jitsu Ryu's which pre date Kodokan Ju Do to be Ju Do, or Do you consider Shorin and Shorei to also be Shotokan.
There were 5 original Kwans defined as opening in Korea before the outbreak of the Korean Civil War in 1950. They opened from 1944 to 1946/7, with the Song Moo Kwan opening 1st on March 11, 1944. The ChungDoKwan opened next on September 15, 1944. Both did not remain open long for more than 1 reason, but mostly it was still during the Colonial Occupation Period of Corea by Japan. All 5 of these Kwans taught basic, rudimentary karate with some minor CMA influence. They had nothing to do directly with creating the TKD we know today as ITF or WTF other than producing the 2nd generation leaders that would actually play hands on rolls in creating the 2 major TKDs. The Song Moo Kwan is a possible exception in SOME ways, as their Founder GM Ro Byung-Jik, still alive at 95, was the VP of the 1959 KTA under Gen. Choi's Presidency. He also succeeded Gen. Choi as the 4th President of the 1961 KTA that started off as Tae SOO Do. While 4th president of the KTA he served only 1 year & started the President's Cup. Other than that he had no real impact or substantial involvement. He was reported (by the Modern History of TKD - Kang & Lee) to be more concerned with his own Kwan & methods, which was essentially Korean karate. So he faded from the TKD scene, eventually moving to the USA in the 1970s. He had a good relationship with Gen. Choi & the respect of many seniors. He did some travel with Gen. Choi, but of course the splits got in the way as well. So SMK is Korean Karate & it was formally numbered, retired & rolled into the Kukkiwon in 1978 by the SK govt. Active members of the SMK played a role in creating the Palgwe forms & then the Taehuek Poomsae.
I think I will definitely check out the Song Moo Kwan school I found as well as the ITF school. Both are within a half hour. The ITF may offer more bang for my buck though since they also have Kali and Judo offered at their school. The SMK school does look interesting thought. It seems to be missing the high kicks that WTF TKD has developed over the years.
I think TKD - styles can be summed up as: I.T.F, W.T.F., and A.T.A.. That is how I understand the original question. The rest breaks down to Federation and Kwan ideologies I think.
You have named organizations, not styles. Of course we first have to agree as to what a "Style" is. For purpses of this post it is a system as defined by it's creator(s). Many idepentant schools and small orgs may use a system or parts / version of it and not belong to one of the orgs listed. ITF uses and has always used the Chang Hon System. WTF is a sports org. For a long time it only involved sparring. So any system using it's rule set and people jumping thru the proper hoops could compete under that umbrella. Gold medalist Arlene Limas was a Prime example. Even it's sister org the KKW which seems to have moved to a unified system recognized and certified rank under many systems for a long time. The ATA was founded by HU Lee and he was a CDK product and like many adopted and used the Chang Hon system for a long time before creating his own system. I know some guys with ATA roots who do the Chang Hon system (Now independant) and like many with CDK roots those roots bleed thru into the system.
Outside of patterns, the ATA is pretty much the same as ITF from my understanding. They wear more body protectors and helmets. Rules might differ slightly in competition, but that's about it. The WTF both modified and trained on kicks ITFers know very little about. Most of it involves silly jumping. ATA is also flooded with MCdojos. Difference in style is in my opinion combat techniques. What else?
One must understand the original Kwans, the early Kwans & their annex schools were not doing TKD. TKD started in the ROK Army & their gym was called the Oh Do Kwan, which worked very closely with the Chung Do Kwan, which Gen. Choi was the honorary director of.
The way I look at it is there are 3 major branches of TKD: 1) The original TKD which started in the ROK Army. Some call it military TKD or SD TKD. This came from the Oh Do Kwan under Gen. Choi's leadership. Therefore some call it Chang Hon TKD, as that was his Pen Name. They went on to form the ITF. 2) The civilians 1st used the name Tae SOO Do & their focus was the new sports rules that came from the Jidokwan. The leaders were Lee Chong-woo, Uhm Woon-Gyu & Lee Nam-suk. Then a KCIA govt man took over named Dr. Kim Un-yong, the father of Olympic TKD. He was president when the Kukkiwon opened, after the project began under his predecessor Kim Yong-Chae. This is often called Kukki TKD & Dr. Kim founded the WTF so it had an international branch to help facilitate the global spread & race to the Olympics, which the beat the ITF. 3) The remaining group is by far the largest & has no real parameters as they are the independents. Some still do karate katas, wear karate Gis & look very karate like. Some do musical forms & some have very successful organizations, like the ATA & TAGB.
As stated previously, too much confusion between "style" and organization. I would answer that two primary styles exist (Chang Hun & Kukki) of these two primary styles there are some different periods that come into play. Each style has undergone some renovations. Chang Hun has the original 20 Hyung system as well as the more modern 25 Tuel w/ sinewave infusion. Whereas, Kukki style has both Pal-Gwe era as well as more modern TaeGuek system. Most of the Kwan's subscribe to one or both of these methods of training, however there are those that continue to practice Korean Karate (while referring to it at Taekwondo). These practitioners follow their individual kwan's methods of training in the Koreanized - Japanese Method of the 1940's and 1950's. There is also the system of the ATA / Songham Taekwondo, which is a re-branding of sorts adding yet another pattern set to the mix, but outside of their business model, I am uncertain of how widespread their teachings reach. In all honesty, I think Okinawan and Japanese Karate have done a far better job of separating their systems. (ie. Seibukan - Shorin Ryu - Karate...to me at least the greater specificity leads to less confussion.)
