Style Allegiance

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Ero-Sennin, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Do any of you feel some sort of extreme loyalty or allegiance to your style of choice? If so, I'm interested in knowing why.

    A lot of times this feeling of loyalty seems to fog up the reality of actual fighting, producing style vs. style or "this is why my style is better" type points. I can kind of understand the mentality because I sort of felt that way over Isshinryu Karate when I was 16, but I grew out of it pretty quickly in pursuit of more intense training where I found MMA. I've got minimal experience (a years worth) of MMA focused heavily on ground fighting with some wrestling, a year and some change in boxing, I've done even less Judo, and of course I've trained and implemented training in modern military tactics/weaponry (I consider this a MA, but I consider any form of fighting a MA). I don't understand the deep feelings of loyalty some people have that causes them to cast aside research or experience in forms of fighting that their particular MA doesn't train specifically, and how they may be beneficial.

    It's kind of like a "groupthink" occurs. If you have these sort of feelings, why do you have them? If you've noticed this in others, feel free to postulate why. I'm not starting this thread to flame or belittle anyone, as this mindset can be found in everything from the Boxing and MMA gym to your traditional Karate and TKD gym. Please keep any personal vendettas (or form your vendetta articulately, so it does not violate any ToS :p) out of any sort of reply. :p
     
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i've left a school once because of it. it's extremely annoying. on the other hand i do owe quite a bit to the group i started with, in terms of where i'd be now emotionally and psychologically if i hadn't stated training with them (or if i'd even be alive, given where my head might have ended up), and i do consider it a pretty damn good technical base for branching out into other stuff. but yeah, when people go all religious zealot on martial arts styles i kinda tune out or start hating them almost irrationally, because it's obnoxious and annoying.
     
  3. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    There are certain "flavors" I prefer, but I'm more concerned with effectiveness, and don't particularly care where that effectiveness comes from. I'll fanboy out sometimes for boxing, karate, or Catch wrestling, but I'd like to think that when it comes down to it, I maintain a mostly-objective outlook on martial arts as a whole.

    Coincidentally, I was talking to someone about this the other day. It seems to me that if someone is still relatively new at martial arts, they'll eat up anything they encounter; I can't recall meeting someone with less than a year of experience who wasn't wiling to learn something outside of their system. But I see a lot more of it at instructor/black belt level. I think it's an ego thing- you've invested so much time in a system, and have started to pass it on, and why would you chose something that was ineffective/lacking? Luckily I don't think it's an attitude that's particularly prevalent, but it probably gives me the most grief.
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'd like to think not. I like FMA. That's obvious. But I gravitated pretty strongly toward JKD, which brought me into contact with lots of different styles while providing a sort of organizing principle as I looked at them. So loyalty? Yeah, I think so. Groupthink, not so much. I enjoy the culture, history, and technique of FMA. I also feel that way about muay thai, lethwei, boxing, and a host of other things.
     
  5. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I used to think your training wasn't worth anything if you didn't kick to the head. Getting slammed a few hundred times by a judo Olympian knocked that out of me. But I can still get into really heated debates just on the aesthetics of kicking. Take Muay Thai, for example. God they kick ugly. I like pretty kicks (even the basic ones) because it tells me someone has mastered their craft, spending time to improve the attributes which affect kicking form and function. A lot of Thai stylists just chuck their leg at their opponent, yet noobs hail it as "teh awsum". It tells me about a lot of flaws in a person's training.
     
  6. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    No style loyalty here. My Shihan himself compiled his syllabus from a number of diverse sources. I doubt even traditional martial artists way back when had much style loyalty either. Mabuni sensei borrowed from kung fu in building ****o-Ryu, for example.
     
  7. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Na, I don't have an extreme loyalty/allegiance to ninjutsu, though I haven't found any art that surpasses it's effectiveness in standup unarmed grappling. All of my ninjutsu teachers held multiple black belts, encouraged cross-training, and reinforced the lesson that whatever works is ninjutsu.
     
  8. pseudo

    pseudo Padawan

    I don't know if I'd call this style loyalty but I do find my self always comparing things to boxing. Boxing for me was such a fundamental building block that brought about so meany positive changes that its hard for me not to think about it when im doing stuff.

    For example, I started Savate and while I enjoy it I can't help thinking that "man, my instructor sure can out kick me but his boxing is meh." Or In aikido when we are doing strikes I always want to drop into a boxing stans and throw a few punches and see how my instructor deal with it. I'm always looking at how I can incorporate new styles into boxing as I feel boxing is really where my fundamentals come from. Boxing is always in the back of my mind.
     
  9. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    I do something similar WRT karate-jitsu. I did some judo before I came to karate, so my body sort of wants to do judo even when I'm telling it to do karate. :eek: :/ My sempai is amused by it. :D
     
  10. Hazmatac

    Hazmatac Valued Member

    I have thought it might be a good idea to adhere to a style (at least for a long time) until you get real good at it. I am not totally sure one way or the other. There is a few ideas which go into adhering to one style only...

    One is that if you think about aikido, you aren't going to be much of anything when you first join and likely for a few years of dedicated practice. But you can start to pick up some really good technique as you progress. If you think about boxing, it seems a strong but limited skillset. But if you REALLY, REALLY dedicated yourself to it, Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali status, then you are going to be incredibly difficult to deal with even if you never done groundwork or throws or all of that. And yes, it is the fighter, but the art is sufficient here.

    I read a quote from the comic book version of "The Demon's Sermon on Martial Arts" which said that you can spend a lifetime looking into all the fighting styles, but there is just WAY too much stuff out there to fully take in everything. You will come to the end of your life before you reach mastery of that. So study instead 1 art and peer into that with all your might, unlock its mysteries and master its techniques and it will be well enough.

    Also, thinking about it, I used to play Mortal Kombat 9 a lot. Now, there are some fighters which are way more difficult to beat due to increased speed, versatility, or other factors. But I have fought people who made just about every, if not every fighter be VERY hard to beat or impossible. You think you have the victory in the bag because he picked an 'inferior fighter' but he ends up owning you. (BTW, video games, at least 2d fighting games such as Mortal Kombat, breeds masters. I suggest looking up "MK9 Tournament 2013" on youtube if you are unfamiliar with the skill level of the people playing these games.)

    Again, I can't say for certain the ultimate truth on this issue, but there seems to be good ideas going both ways. Hopefully one day I will know for sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I am style-loyal to Taekwondo and Hapkido. But what really attracted me to the styles was the instructor. I find classes to be relevant, fun, challenging, and practical... and the philosophy meets my needs. After almost 20 years with the same instructor, I still learn something new or have some sort of worthwhile thought/reflection. I tried out the arts under different instructors (and in the 'motherland') and found the pattern/reward very similar... but still think my instructor fits me best.

    So... for me, it may not really be the style, but the instructor, and if he had been teaching anything else, I'd probably still be with him doing that.

    I've explored a lot of different styles (seminars, visits, etc) and it's nice to be able to talk to my instructor about reflections/ideas/etc from those... because he also does a lot of exploring. Maybe it's the open-mindedness that I appreciate. That, and a focus on realistic skills for self defense without the whole 'that's the only way to do it' that some schools have.
     
  12. Wooden Hare

    Wooden Hare Banned Banned

    "Running water never grows stale".

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OCCAVjUczs"]Bruce Lee re: " Worship Styles " - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  13. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    I am all about being a well-rounded martial artists (we call it sogu budo) - heck even my dojo name translates to "place of the mind like water." At the same time I feel it important to have a solid fundamental background in one methodology from a quality instructor. A 'base' martial art, if you will, before branching out too many different directions. I'm a bit of a hypocrite here as I train in multiple styles of multiple martial arts, but I have a 'base' art that is my primary focus - everything else being secondary (unless I'm prepping for a test, or competition).
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I have pretty much zero style loyalty, but it took me a while to get there - most people, even Bruce, were the same although the advent of MMA may be changing that culture
     
  15. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    I feel far more loyalty to the instructors who taught me rather than to the systems they taught me. My main art is Kali but that doesn't mean I won't lift that really simple aiki-jutsu throw that my student showed me that works perfectly from the two-on-one arm control. My guide is what I find to be effective, most of the PTK stuff I have has worked out pretty well, but I will always try to test it, and if I find something else that works well, like any good FMAer I will unabashedly steal it. :D
     
  16. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    I myself have some serious style loyalty to karate, especially shorin ryu because that's what I've trained in and earned a black belt in but I've recently started kajukenbo and mma.

    Training different styles hasn't changed my loyalty to karate at all, I still consider myself a karateka above all but try and keep it in perspective. I know that mma people can "fight" better than most karate people, but that doesn't mean I think mma is better.

    The way I see it, fighting is like racing a car. It's a way for martial artists to compete, train, and have a laugh.A subaru wrx will beat a subaru outback in a race, but that doesn't make it a better car. It just makes it a better race car. To me it's the same with martial arts.

    I like mma and I like kajukenbo, but I love karate. I know there are large holes in my shorin ryu training, and I know as of one I wouldn't do well in the octagon (I've got near zero ground fighting experience) but if me and my mma counterparts are attacked by some tough, we would both probably come out safer than the other guy (assuming no weapons). We just get there differently.
     
  17. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I like SAMBO but only because it's a good match for my personality on the mat. I was basically doing the same things in BJJ and Catch before I picked up SAMBO. It's just that now the training format better supports what I'm trying to improve.

    It's when you choose a style on some emotional basis and then come up with justifications for it that you run into problems. This isn't terribly common among people who have any idea what they're doing.
     
  18. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Invites the question of why did the Thais develop low/mid kicks to the exclusion of the higher, more aesthetic variety found in Korea?

    Was it just a matter of ring-practicality, speed of delivery?
     
  19. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I was probably unduly harsh in my criticism of Thai kicks. Probably.

    Top guys like Baukaw could stop a moving train with his teep. But I think the preference of simpler, easier techniques opens the door to bad form. I don't know why the stylistic differences exist. But I don't think function or speed is the answer (especially not speed, just look at Bill Wallace). When you compare the two (Thai vs TKD/karate kicks - sport karate mind, not godawful Shotokan stuff), it seems like putting a clumsy bat against the surgical precision of a scalpel.

    God I need to get a life. :cry:
     
  20. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Dude! Sport karate encourages some dreadful habits compared to your standard shotokan kicks. So many sport stylists engage their hip too long before impact, turn their body in the opposite direction to the direction they're kicking or extend a stiff leg then slide their back foot to make distance.

    Give me "god awful" shotokan style kicks any time.
     

Share This Page