strengths/weaknesses of maphilindo or mande muda

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Living_symbiote, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. Living_symbiote

    Living_symbiote Valued Member

    Hey guys, how's everyone doing!

    First of all, i would like to start off saying that yes, i pushed the "Search" button, and look3ed for any subject or remotely related subject that they may have had like this on previous threads. But, fortunately for me there were none. So i wanted to talk today about this beautiful art, that bruce and dan inosanto and pak herman helped to bring to the u.s. I have heard a couple quotes from Bruce Lee stating that the whole concept of jkd, was to take the strenghts of 1 art and throw out its weakness and to to cross train in another art that can cover that weakess, thus transforming it into a strength. Dan Inosanto said that Bruce Lee looked for the "essence" behind every martial art, he sought and he found it, thus forming his own individualized system "JKD". A system made up of hundreds of unique and sometimes totally foreign arts that we will probably never pronounce in this lifetime. And I noticed he had all the arts that are familiar with americans, today. So that got me thinking, what would he say is the essence behind silat? What are some major benefits/downfalls and strengths and weakness of silat? And these questions threw me nto so much of a "tewsie" that i decided to come here and ask the very much respected elders and sensei's and the silat community, for their opinions.

    So my question for you today is:

    1)What do you think you would say is the essence (i.e. why and for what reasons mande muda and maphilindo or perhaps your particular silat should be studied, and strengths/weaknesses, benefits/downfalls) of maphilindo and mande muda silat (or if you dont have any experience with these two styles of silat then talk about the one you practice now)

    And i will go first, i think a major benefit, is its unexpectedness, and totally unique and broad-ranging style, leaving a number of things open for you to improvise on the spot. It will help you in the intimdation factor, and also your opponent wont be able to guess what you have in store for them. Also the rigorous training helps you develop a strong mentality and strong body- almost as if you were carved out of wood-. Wouldnt you guys agree with me saying the silat is the most rigorous art to be practiced, it builds muscle, coordination, balance, can help aid you in losing weight, and can even help agility! But however i think a major downfall is that because silat is so creative and so broad-based it can leave a lot of open room for phony instructors to make up a couple of moves that look cool and unique and brainwash you into going into to their studio and leaving with a big hole in your wallet. Weapons training is definitely a plus. But for me its prety unbeleivable that these gyms teach harmful weaponry to anyone who walks in with cash. Dont you think more crime and killing would be going on as a cause for that.? It just seems pretty dangerous to me. Also i think another downfall is lack of aliveness training. There's nothing wrong with dressing up in padded equipment and going 100% with this art every once in a while, dont you think?
    Answers , comments anyone?
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  2. karasac

    karasac New Member

    Mande Muda Penjak Silat

    If anyone is interested in learning more about Mande Muda then I would be more than happy to assist as I am priviledged to be Ibu Suwandas UK representative & have been hosting Ibu in London for the last 3 years.
    A detailed interview with Ibu Suwanda can be found on our website & which gives a breakdown of the various component systems within Mande Muda including Hari Mau, Chikalong, Chimande & Subundhar.
    I am also certified by Guro Inosanto to teach Kali/Silat .. so have an insight into both these systems there similarities and differences.
  3. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    Firstly Bruce Lee & Dan Inosanto had nothing to do with bringing Silat to the U.S. and they both learned Silat here in the U.S.

    Here are a few of the pioneers that brought Silat to the U.S.

    1. Willy Wetzel

    2. Willem Reeders

    3. Jim Ingram

    4. Paul de Thouars

    You do know that Silat was the last art Bruce Lee studied before his death and he was in the process of revamping JKD to include a lot of Silat. So I think Dan Inosanto would be the one to answer that question.

    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
  4. Silatyogi

    Silatyogi Valued Member

    I heard he trained with William DT and also studied a bit with Paul DT and ofcourse William Reeders.

    I think if Bruce was Alive he would be doing more silat as he got older.


  5. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat


    From what I understand Bruce's training went like this:

    1. Willy Wetzel - supposedly Willy didn't like him and sent him on his way

    2. Willem Reeders - wouldn't do what Willem said especially with the internal training so again he left

    3. Paul de Thouars - Paul was more welcoming because of his star status and Paul was teaching more of a physical style and worked with Bruce on what he wanted to learn.

    Bruce introduced Dan Inosanto to Paul de Thouars and started his training.

    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
  6. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    Many of us have Bruce's notes from his studies with Guru Reeders, thanks to Guru Dan.

    Gurus Stevan Plinck and Bob Vanatta can tell you who introduced Guru Dan to Paul since they were both there. Bruce was already making action movies in Heaven when that introduction took place.
  7. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat


    I know Dan has said that Bruce introduced him to Silat and wasn't Bruce studying Silat with the de Thouars when he died.

    I also know that Dan studied with Eddie Jafri and John De Jung so then who did Bruce Lee introduce Dan Inosanto to?

    And who did introduce Dan to Paul?

    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
  8. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    I don't know who Bruce Lee may have introduced Guru Dan to, except that it wasn't Paul deThouars. I also don't have any knowledge of who may have introduced Guru Dan to various other silat pioneers, but Bruce was long gone when John de Jung facilitated the introduction to Paul. Victor and a bunch of his students including Guru Bob were there. Guru Bob has a picture of them all from that meeting, circa 1983-84, 10 years after Bruce's death.
  9. Silatyogi

    Silatyogi Valued Member

    Uncle Bill claims he was studying with Paul and Bruce was Uncle bills training partner.
  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I think at a seminar I was at (about 15 years ago) Inosanto said his first Silat teacher was Eddie Jaffre.I could be mistaken, it's been awhile.
  11. Living_symbiote

    Living_symbiote Valued Member

    hmmm. intereting notions...

    but do you think silat people spar? i know dan inosantos does
  12. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I remember being at an Inosanto seminar in 1984 when he was demonstrating some Silat techniques. I decided to check into Silat after that. I don't recall who he said he learned it from.

    And yes, you can spar in Silat....
  13. Raden-Rahmat

    Raden-Rahmat Valued Member

    just adding

    it seems that the discussion as gone off a bit...not off but the topic has "threaded" for the lack of the best word...
    if you are looking to study any silat, id suggest u look at the teacher and ask directly...this i say because the best person to represent the Silat would be the head, the Kepala Aliran (style leader). not only is the art shown in his action but the experience and wisdom of the art would be in his every movement. Furthermore, uniqueness is in all of us and every silat has a unique appeal to each persons unique taste. This is just a tip cos its pointless looking at youtube searching for all silat vids or browsing books on many styles. I did that and all you do is get excited looking at experienced people but like they say "silat is beauty (rose) outside and thorns inside" ...basically saying that BUNGA IS YOUR HIDDEN AGENDA...the buah Pukulan is what you actually wana share with everyone who wants some meat!!! :woo:
    i disapprove of promoting arts but i approve of engaging on the quality of every art as that is what is most important...and dont get me wrong...all silat is quality...thats in my experience but only from the ppl whom it comes from...i havent seen any better from foreign blood yet...but train in your country and go to the land of the art and you will be impressed
  14. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Salam mas Raden-Rahmat,

    I'm not a great fan of mass promotion and commercial schools either, and yes all that youtube stuff is misleading......there have been comments from people thinking silat pulut is sparring:eek:

    Remember, some 'foreigners' have lived, breathed, sweated and bled silat against all odds and inspite of lack of recognition, cultural difference, little information and very few guru2, they have become very talented pesilat. Many have travelled to Malaysia and Indonesia to study. Perhaps sometimes the path may be harder for the bule than the pribumi?

    With the greatest respect


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