Strength Power without Bulk

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by humble, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    I ended up with this body type too, I have propotionally large legs, a decent sized back then tiny little arms. Kind of annoying tbh, no one ever sees your legs, well they see mine cos I make a point of getting them out as often as possible but it's hard to find excuses sometimes :( .
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Monster core workout with that. Niiiiice!
     
  3. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    I cant imagine you would ever find a gym to allow you to do this kind of training?

    I also dont think this is paticularly useful until you already have a good base of strength from basic compound lifts?
     
  4. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    why not, it drills movements in a manner similar to the throws used
     
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You have to train that on dirt ground.

    It can "enhance" your throwing skill such as:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTngJtjkGow"]outer bow - YouTube[/ame]

    Of course the "general" training such as compound lifts have great value. IMO, the "general" training and "special (sport)" training should go together. there is a reason that most of the golf players love to swing their sticks even if it may not build big muscle. It will build the "body unification/coordination" needed in "sport/combat".
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    No you won't. This is a type of training you have to make your own gear and find a space to do it. Outside of someone running a Shuai Chao class you're probably never going to see it. There are vids of this on YouTube. Very applicable to reaps and throws. But if you try this with an Oly bar and plates you're asking for a disaster unless you braze the collar closed.

    Here's an example I've posted before:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PbNpaiIi9I&feature=related"]Shuaijiao - YouTube[/ame]

    As you can see this would take some serious space and a large area covered in bumper plates. Not easy to find. But out of doors in a dirt or lot area you could pull it off easily.
     
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Here is one possible technique that this type of power generation can be used for. I'm sure there are man others.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jirYfi1-0Q&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]ShuaijiaoTV Technique of The Week - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Jeebus.. that looks like a brutal angle/leverage to have to get thrown from. It almost looks as if it fold against the joint. Ouch!
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    "Fighting Fit" ran an article about the Methods being used to increase throw specific power for the Olympic GB Judo team for the upcoming 2012 games.
    The methods were performing a lift (e.g. deadlift or powerclean) and then immediately performing a throw or uchikomi while having a third person hold the opponents gi for resistance.
    I think the shuaijiao exercises would be much more useful as it combines both methods into a compound exercise.
     
  10. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    That same drill the Chinese Shuai Jiao players use isn't far off from Judo's Uchi Mata technique... it's pretty obvious how the drill with the single ended barbell would help to build power for such a throw or similar type reaps.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R43op-tg-_E"]JUDO Best Uchimata- music by Queen - YouTube[/ame]
     
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    To remain single leg balance after "leg lift (Uchi Mata)" require great flexibility and balance.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  12. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    @ YouKnowWho -
    Do you know of the stories/evidence or the lineage between the Shuai Jiao throws and those in Judo? Is there much written evidence or direct connection or are we left only with speculation? Surely there are similar throws through out Mongolian wrestling, Shuai Jiao, Ssireum and Judo... would you consider Shuai Jiao throws to be the root?
     
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    surely western wrestling has something similar to an uchimata?
     
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Japanese will never give any credit to Chinese. But if we look at those ancient Chinese Shuai Chiao pictures, it's not hard to see some similiarity between Chinese throwing art and Japanese throwing art.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Ming Dynasty (1277 ~ 1367)

    The Ming Dynasty was the re-establishment of Chinese Sovereignty, following the Mongol conquest. During this time, some of China's martial arts began to flourish abroad, and Shuai-Chiao also made its presence felt overseas.

    Chen Yuan-Ping is credited for bringing Shuai-Chiao to Japan. Chen's tomb is still well known in Japan.

    http://www.nycbudo.com/History_of_Jujutsu.html

    History and Origin of Jujutsu

    Several theories explain the origins of jujutsu. One theory holds that in the 17th century, a Chinese man named Chen Yuan Ping introduced the techniques of jujutsu to three ronin - Fukuno Hichiroemon, Miura Yojiemon, and Isogai Jirozaemon. The other theory propounded by the Yoshin Ryu holds that a doctor named Akiyama Shirobei from Nagasaki devised jujutsu upon his return from China where he learned the art of hakuda.

    The term jujutsu was not coined until the 17th century, after which time it became a blanket term for a wide variety of grappling-related disciplines. Prior to that time, these skills had names such as "short sword grappling" (kogusoku koshi no mawari), "grappling" ( or kumiuchi), "body art" (taijutsu), "softness" (or yawara), "art of harmony" ( wajutsu, yawarajutsu), "catching hand" ( torite), and even the "way of softness" (judo) (as early as 1724, almost two centuries before Kano Jigoro founded the modern art of Kodokan Judo).
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  15. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    The one bellow is actually carrying some muscle?

    Also pretty daft comparison since the bloke below trained in a time when various AAS, diet assistance and supplements where available, also I'd bet any some of money that the vast majority of his training isn't done with isolation movements. I'd also bet that he's considerably stronger than the bloke bellow.

    OP look at some of the lower weight class Olympic lifters, you'd be hard pressed to find stronger more powerful dudes and they're hardly 'bulky'. They got that from barbell movements and careful dieting.

    People are beginning to assume that because it isn't done with barbells or dumbbells that it won't cause 'bulk' is this because it's 'functional' or something?
    Any stimulus to a muscle will cause a growth response if the fuel is there for said growth, doesn't matter if it's done with a barbell, kettle bell, body weight, goat or any traditional SC kit.
     
  16. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    As far as I understand it muscles can only get bigger and stronger or smaller and weaker. Any other improvements ins strength come from improvements in the nervous system, technique and improved recovery rates.
     
  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    there is two types o hypertrophy - sacropasmic hypertrophy which increases the volume of the sacroplasm which creates bulk and a moderate amount of strength and actin-myosin/protein hypertrophy which increases the number of protein filaments which creates strength and a less bulk.
    however these two types of hypertrophy are not independent and there will be some strength and bulk gain with any program, though it depends on the design of your program.

    hyperplasia is also a gain in muscle mass due to the increase in the number of muscle fibres however it has not been observed in humans.
     
  18. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Strength can be a neurological adaptation, again lower weight oly lifters are a good example.
     
  19. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I want to train with a goat. That would be so awesome.
     
  20. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Only one to pick up on that. You win.
     

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