Sorry for the confusion. you most likely know this, but the vagus nerve the motor nerve that runs through the neck. Striking the right vagus will paralyze that side of the body temporarily. A dragon fang (basically a fist with the middle finger's knuckle 'poking' out) is the strike I'm referring to. Kind of what you might use to give someone a charlie horse. When you strike this nerve, the smartest thing to do would be to turn your body 180 with the punch. You're now facing the opposite direction you were originally facing. Running from here will give you plenty of time because the attacker has been struck, will stager from the blow... fall because of the temporary paralysis... and then will need to gain proper control to effectively stand and follow. I haven't used this in a real-life fight, but I have practiced opening up the attackers gate (therefore opening up the vagus nerve) and getting the punch to the shoulder. (In our contact, when we mean to punch the face or throat we just hit the shoulder so as not to injure your practice partner, but you don't really pull the strike) And true, as soon as you incapacitate the atacker, any further action is illegal unless they've made lethal threats and show leathal intention. Especially with MA training, the law gets sketchy. Dragon fang... -^-- think of the three straight lines as the fingers made into a normal fist, and the point is the knuckle of the middle finger sticking out. Hope that helps.:-/
Forgive me Hung Fut, but I'm still a little confused about a couple of points. In one post you say that you have sucsessfully used this technique, but in another you say you haven't? The other is one of body mechanics. Will the reaction you get from using a normal fist be the same as the one with a single knuckle? Also, although a reasonable idea, surely turning 180 degrees will reduce the power of the puch as the momentum of your body is not into the puch, but away from it?
Sorry again, for sounding hypocritical. When I say successfully, I mean that against an attack from my partner at close to full speed I can open his gate and get the fist where it needs to be. The reason it can't be a closed normal fist, is that; The knuckle itself will dig into the nerve causing it shut down easier. A good way to think about it is... slap your leg... then punch your leg... then hit it with a dragon fang. Which strike hurt the muscle the most? Theoretically it should be the dragon fang. As far as turning the body... it's just being able to be close enough that when you pivot your upper body so you eventually turn 180... it will add to the power. Your fist will make contact and you'll turn your body while extending through and pivoting your feet. This should add to the power and cause the technique to well.. work.
OK, the slap stung like hell The punch corked my leg and the "dragon fang" dislocated my finger :bang: Maybe I did it wrong
The closest thing to a street fight I've ever been in was a fight in junior highschool. Neither of us knew what we were doing, but I got the first shot in with a backfist to his chest. Then it was all about whoever got the lucky punches in. Dang..if only I knew TKD back then...I would have been in so much more trouble!!
The vagus nerve runs all over the place , but is easiest to get to as it runs up the neck. It is what is known as a deep nerve because it is fully covered by the neck muscles (and therefore requires skill to access). It runs alongside the internal jugular vein. As with most nerves, it is tiny. The other problem is that it is surrounded by muscle, the jugular vein (and common carotid artery) and other soft tissues making it difficult to get an effective strike. I.e. It's easy to hit your own ulnar nerve (hit your funny bone) because it's big and surrounded by bone at the elbow. Although no-one's denying the drastic effects that could happen to someone if their vagus nerve was damaged, it's simply too deep, too small and too cushioned to be a useful target in a high pressure situation... especially if you're now going to turn your back (sort of) on your opponent, assume it worked and try to run. I'm not throwing digs or insults around here, but I honestly think you'll get yourself killed trying to pull off a move like that in a street fight unless your really good (by which I mean better than most supposed grandmasters).
Streetfighting 101 by kiddies I do so love the kiddies who still think a complex fine motor co-ordinated move will be of any use in an adrenaline pumped heart pounding fight for your life. Let's hope they never have to learn the hard way, for their mothers sake. Redsandpalm summed it up well; too complex, too hard to pull of under pressure, too hard to even hit with a high degree of certainty. Good post.
I have been in many street fights growing up in Boston and in bars too. I have always tried avoiding them, but I was in bars a lot, and stuff happens. The most you caan hope for is that a certain amount of your training has become instinctual...mostly from the wild round punches being thrown at your head, and the spprwling technique for when the person will invariably try and tackle you. Speed and instinct has been my savior. The faster you move the quicker it will end. Usually lasting no more than 10-20 seconds.
I was recently attacked. A crack head snuck up fro behind and put me in a head lock. I escaped and got behind and kicked him in the back he rolled over and I stupidly didn't run. Then he got up and threw a punch. I blocked and back fisted him the face and kicked him in the crotch. He doubled over and I hammer fisted him as hard as I could in back (If I had struck the neck I would of killed him which I was not going to do). He fell agian and I ran. That is self defence. In th ene dI was not hurt and I got away fine. I defended my self. There is no need to keep on fighting and not run for pride. That in my view was a proper street fight self defence situation.
Street Fighting First off Badger , your a funny man, I spit coffee on my screen havent done that in weeks and wise IMO thanks for sharing Sorry man I dont recomend ANYONE trying full force finger strikes in a balls-to-the-walls-all-out-streetfight . Using finger strikes take TONS of conditioning and strengthing to use full force and even then you will recieve finger injuries when you miss all out full power strike and ram them square into the shoulder blade, collarbone ,sternam , spine, knee , elbow, skull, or forears . And this out of a Shaolin Kempo'er I love my finger strikes and animal forms .... but come on .. I condition ALOT and destroy my fingers all the time when stuff gets heated up ( full contact with friends and in street fights when I was fighting for my life ) not a mistake I am going to pass on to others it cost me my ring finger on my right hand its deformed as hell now :bang: . the best advise has already been stated ... be aware .. try not to find fights , dont be a "real ( stupid ) man " and try to save face , run when you can , and of course TRAIN alot .. in different styles and ranges prepare to be adaptable and make sure your shoes are tied . You cant avoid troubled times so prepare for the worst hope for the best and carry a stick if your really worried about getting beat down . : Love you all BackFistMonkey
I agree with what many people say. At the end of the night, you probably won't see that guy again, so don't stress. But if you do chose to fight, do it, whatever. I think in America it has become taboo to fight. We like to think of ourselves as better than animals, and such. But we aren’t. We TRY and think we are by using our brains, but when it comes down to it, we have the same instincts as animals, we can just mask them better. Fighting is natural. Animals fight, mainly to kill one another for food, but if it's in us, its natural; and you're going to need to deal with it some day. You can sit here and type "Oh well, if you fight, you're a loser, just run; that makes you better." But when it happens to you, like it's happened to me MANY times, you're thinking, "Fight or flight." Stay and protect myself, my sister (me) or run. I have no problems with running, if I know I can get away. If I see 3 guys and I know I have a chance to run I know that there is a good chance they'll catch up once I run out of gas and I'll be beaten up more mercifully. I know how to talk, I can usually talk myself out of quarrels, but thinking that you are better because you can run and passing this on, IMO, is stupid. There will be consequences to everything. Sure, you can get hurt, you can hurt him, you can be arrested, so on. You must no your limit, and understand the situation. No one will hand you the right answers. But fighting does happen, and fighting is real. I don't buy into the medias portrayal that fighting is "bad". Fighting blows, sure, I don't like it, but it doesn’t make you any less of a person if you fight to protect yourself. And I don't mean "self-defense" (a term used IMO to make yourself better than the other person). Why do people take self defense? So they don't get hurt, and they can take someone out fast and effectively. Isn’t that the same as fighting? How do we draw this imaginary line between right and wrong? Fighting/Self Defense. I use the word "Provoking". If you provoke it, you have a problem. But to the bystander, you need to take your life into consideration. Be prepared to fight if you have to. That's why we have MA. MA has been glamorize and romanticized to portray lethal adversaries who can kill you in 10 seconds and take on 10 guys at a time. But we know that isn't true. Still though, MA was created all around the world to help in wars, and social conflicts. You cannot turn a blind eye and say..."Gee... the best advise is to not be the dumb ass and fight." Fighting is stupid, we know this... why is it stupid? Not because of the fight itself (or else you wouldn’t even do MA) it's the reasoning. Talking yourself out of something is smart, but do you always get this chance? Nope. If you cant run, and you cant talk, than you fight. That's all I can really say. At some point in your life you are going to need to stop caring, and worrying and stressing and just do. I hate fighting, but that doesn’t stop me from being jumped. I've been jumped so many times, that I understand the mentality. There is none. It's pure dominance and aggression. If the guy wants to be stupid enough to pick a fight with me, then I feel bad for him. Sure, I COULD get in trouble by the law, but at that moment in time, I'm not thinking that. I'm thinking about how not to die.
A bit long-winded Oddball but I agree with you. When it comes down to the real thing all the theory and politics goes out the window and you either live or die by the choices you make. Nice post.
