Street fighting experience

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Martial artist, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. Kosh

    Kosh New Member


    I said that about a week ago and got flamed for it!

    its not a subtle difference either...to me they seem completely opposite.
     
  2. Martial7

    Martial7 Valued Member

    I would say that street fights are the reason why some people seek out self defense classes. Do you people mean to say that it doesnt happen? Im from the murder capital and i believe that knowing what to do in a Kumite and knowing what to do in an alley-way go in totally different directions. I know of Martial Artists who have been beaten down in nightclubs. Avoiding the confrontation is always the best answer b.u.t. if your in a tight spot, better use what u have available. I have been in more fights on the street than in the dojo or tournaments, and i feel as if you can't talk everyone out of a fight and you cant always "steer clear of trouble", you win some you lose some....

    Proper Education Always Corrects Errors
     
  3. Kosh

    Kosh New Member

    so:-

    1. if an opportunity arises to get away, take it.
    2. if a fight is inevitable, make the first move and make it count.

    can anything be added to this?
     
  4. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    Thats my take on it aswell :cool:
     
  5. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    Why is what you do in kumite different to the alleyway? I’m assuming kumite is something like randori, but I don’t really know. You should be able to break down what you need in the alleyway and practice it within the dojo, it may not be encompassed within the one activity, but you should be able to practice all the elements. This is what sports people do all the time, because it is a very good way of improving the whole performance.
     
  6. Nathan Algren

    Nathan Algren New Member

    Indeed. This "saving face" concept is central to conflict resolution, in my humble opinion, because the single most common reason for conflict is pride. Fights start because one person wants to look "hard" in front of their girlfriend. Fights start because someone is scared, this hurts their pride, and they feel like they gotta beat on someone to get that pride back. Fights start because two guys bump each other in a doorway and neither will apologize .. because they're both too proud.

    If you have someone beat, and you know it, and they know it .. GIVE UP. "Lose". Let them "win". Sure, you may take a small hit to your pride in the short term, when the crowd of jackals are disappointed that there won't be blood on the ground tonight. But you'll gain that and more back in the days and weeks ahead, when the people you care about find out what REALLY happened .. and who resolved the conflict .. and how .. and why.
     
  7. rtkd-badger

    rtkd-badger Fundimentaly Manipulated

     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2004
  8. Weasel

    Weasel New Member


    Please have my baby.
     
  9. Nathan Algren

    Nathan Algren New Member

  10. Jimmy Jitsu

    Jimmy Jitsu Valued Member

    Street Fights

    Coming from Scotland in my younger years I unfortunately did get involved in a few punch ups. I should stress I never started the trouble. Two things you cannot train from a street fight. Each fight is different and definately there are no rules. If you are gonna get involved in a serious street fight it will probably occur between the ages of 15 to 25 and will usually be due to drink of over a lass. The winner is always the person who can hit faster and harder than the other, and believe me size does matter. If trouble is brewing look after yourself try to avoid confrontation, by getting away at first instance. Sometimes it can be better to take a slap or a punch and take it as the attacker may let things die down has he has shown his dominance. However if you do decide to fight make you must attack him / her like he was a brick wall and punch and kick through it until there is no resistance. You must totally destroy that person until he offers no threat. That may mean rammining his / her head against the pavement until he is unconcious. It may mean stomping on to face to cause massive facial trauma or jamming your thumb in his or her eyes, or biting their ear/ nose off. However bear in mind if you try a really nasty tactic and it doesnt come of you will have one really ****ed off person who will do the same or worse to you. One of the nastiest things i heard was a cat fight where one of the girl fell to the floor and the other ran other and kicked her in the eye with the stalleto and totally took out her eye and the other glass was totally blinded. Now that fight was between women. Like I said the dojo cannot train you for that sort of thing. A street fight is purely down to animal instict and there is no grace or honour in it. A drunk or someone on drugs can be the most dangerous person to fight as they fight without any inhibition and off balance which in martial arts you do not train for.

    Once after night clubbing I got chased for a mile by two "casuals" they caught up me. Was slammed against a wall and one had a stanley knife drawn on me. AT this point your heart is pounding and your are thinking oh dear me this is it I'm gonna get murdered or if lucky slashed. I relied on pychology and basically begged and cried for my life I said I was a hemophiliac (which I''m not)and if I got slashed or knifed I's die. Thankfully this bought time and made the attacker think, as I am sure he did not want to actually kill me. Now some of you me be saying ooo I would have disarmed him by doing this or that. For that situation my mouth was my weapon and I came out of it without getting stabbed or slashed.

    So for you out there who want to prove yourself in a street fight be very careful cause you may open a pandora box.

    If you must fight do so as a last resort for yourself or a loved one. Not for pride, money for some young lady you've met in the club.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2004
  11. redsandpalm

    redsandpalm shut your beautiful face

    I was in alot of 'street conflict situations' before seriously taking up MA. I'm big, strong and could always hit hard and fast.... and would agree with Jimmy Jitsu that it helped me out alot. However, taking that 'real' experience and bringing it with me to MA training was great because it helps me see how MA techniques and principles could work. I would therefore have to go along with Colin Lanz on this one. If you train well, it should come through, even in a 'real' situation. Street fights can happen and can be difficult to avoid depending on your age/location/lifestyle, and while your ego heals faster than broken bones (i.e. avoiding is better winning) there's no point taking some moral highground here and saying 'I'll never be in a fight, I'd get out of there somehow so I don't need to worry about it'. A street situation is the arena you're training for.

    To answer the origional post, each situation can be different so I don't think there's even any point talking about techniques here. I think the only real advantages that 'experience' has brought me are;
    1] that I can read people (bodylanguage and so on), and strategically assess a situation very well and quickly.
    2] that I've seen people ripped apart and have gotten over the 'fighting is a rush!' thing.
    3] that I'm pretty confident I can rely on myself to do something constructive (be that run or fight) in a situation rather than freeze.
    4] that I have a pretty good idea of the way the law works with regards this stuff, in my area at least.

    I believe in terms of actual techniques, and what to do once the fight starts, that my MA training has helped me more than 1,000 street fights would have (and it's safer :) ). Plus, now that I look at that list.... [2] should be a given, [4] can be taught/learnt, [1] can be practiced without actually getting into a fight, and [3].. well I can't think of anything right now but I'm sure there is some way you could reassure yourself that you have this ability/response to adrenaline without getting into a fight with a football team.

    *P.S. Colin, when I say a 'street fight', I'm basically taking it as a catch all phrase for every fight situation that isn't a sporting fight held in a ring with rules and a ref etc., so yes it's pretty much the same as a beach fight :) .
     
  12. Nathan Algren

    Nathan Algren New Member

    Well said.

    To illustrate your point with my own personal experiences:

    I've been in a Grand Total of seven "real" fights since I was a small child:

    "won" two by hitting hard and first
    WON two by convincing the opponent they didn't want to fight
    outlasted two by being "hard"

    "lost" one by stepping between two combatants and taking punches meant for my sister, delivered by a mean-drunk alcoholic who knew Karate. This is the fight which was the closest to a "real" street fight, and also (coincidence? NAH.) the fight which started me on the 'Dao' or ''Way'' of the physical, where my concerns up to that point had been almost exclusively mental and spiritual.
     
  13. CobraMaximus

    CobraMaximus Banned Banned

    In my experience from street fights meeting a chav with a fighting stance gives them a surprise. Most of them like just going strait in throwing hundreds of punches. Using controlled techniques is good, like staying calm and taking all the best openings and not getting hurt urself
     
  14. ninjas-r-us

    ninjas-r-us I sit under your tea

    stay calm asses the danger (school yard bully or knife weileding maniac) if its the latter then break strangle and stomp your way to victory
    if the first just doge and suker punch repeate until they leave
     
  15. andrewS

    andrewS Banned Banned

    This is what I've found doing night club work...

    I have clocked guys with hard right hands before, the worst I've done is a black eye, cut the inside of their mouth and a broken/flushed nose.. I've never KOed anyone as I don't have great hand skills, particularly when it comes to the accuracy of landing a punch on someone's jaw.

    However, when the fight clinches (which it ALWAYS does btw - although, it is my preferred range so that may play some part in it), 99% of the time I've found myself with their back at least and the opportunity to put the RNC on if I haven't. Once that choke goes on, it's normally at this point that people realise I know what I'm doing when they feel the pressure around their neck and feel like they can't breathe - holding the choke for a little while to take the fight out of them by gassing them, but not choking them completely out has been enough for me most of the time. I tell them, 'calm down, that's enough, let's go aye'. I have choked one guy out cold and his mates were like, 'what did you do to him, what did you do??' all panic-stricken thinking that he had been KOed, they couldn't pick him up and get him out of there fast enough once he came around.

    Other times when I have merely restrained guys using double underhooks, or tying them up in the clinch.. they calm down, but once they're let go again, they go berserk.. I restrained one guy 3 times and he was restrained by other people as well, but still managed to punch a few guys and was about to turn around and have a go at me the third time I restrained him, but his friend jumped on him and held him down so I didn't offload any punches on him. but, if I had of choked the guy out cold, what would have happened? There was 10-15 people in the brawl, I didn't know who was with who, what would happen to me if I choked out someone's buddy (which he deserved)

    I would say there's no set formula, or one size fits all... It's hard and I think a judgement call is required on a case by case basis, which is difficult because it's hard to take in your surroundings while trying to deal with some guy swinging madly or going berserk.

    In general: you want to take the fight out of the person ASAP, but you need to be aware of his mates that may be lurking around. Punching people is not pretty and thankfully I've never hurt my hands/knuckles seriously, just busted knuckles and while it's messy, it doesn't necessarily stop the fight as effectively or quickly as a choke which is rather harmless (although probably illegal) IMO.

    Oh, and girls are the worst thing that can happen to you...if a girl has a go at you, it's her thinking along the lines of, 'he's a guy, he can't hit me and they will just keep going and keep going until they run out of gas'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2004
  16. Hung-Fut

    Hung-Fut Valued Member

    Defense against a streetfighter

    Shoot for the vegas nerve... make sure you do a solid dragon fang... and turn your body 180 at the end of the punch and RUN. You have a good ten seconds to get away before he's unparalyzed. Or, if you want to be brutal; hit the nerve... and while they're down go for the openings. Make sure you have hands on center. Go for the finishers, hit hard and fast. The thing with streetfighters which has already been stated is that; they hit hard, and if there's 2 there's 3, and is there's 3 there's 4. So, you need to hit hard and break the guy to move on to the next, or hit hard so he doesn't get back up. That's the best defense against a streetfighter otherwise they'll get right back up. Make sure you practice speed on your punches too. If you're confronted by a streetfighter who threatens you... be smart and tell the authorities. That's the best advice I have... sorry. :p
     
  17. redsandpalm

    redsandpalm shut your beautiful face

    I think that's 'vagus'. Don't count on that 10 seconds.
     
  18. Hung-Fut

    Hung-Fut Valued Member

    Have you ever hit the vagus nerve and done so successfully? I have. It will paralyze that side of the body bringing the attacker to the ground... now you have to time this... he gets hit... can't do a lot... hits the ground... needs to regain control... and then stand up effectively. I guarantee at least ten seconds. And Like I said, if you want to be brutal then go for it while they're down. If you don't have faith in the timing then be brutal. No offense to you or anyone, but I've seen it in action... that's why I've suggested it. I've had a grandmaster tell me the effects and how much time there is. So no offense, but just passing on the advice.
     
  19. redsandpalm

    redsandpalm shut your beautiful face

    No offence taken, and there's little point in questioning your ability to successfully carry out this attack over the internet. I personally will stick to my own advice on this one though. :) .
     
  20. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Hung Fut, I'm a little confused as my biology knowledge is not what it used to be. I assume that you are talking about the part of this nerve in the neck? If so was the unconsciousness caused by striking the Vagus nere or compressing the carotid sinus?

    What sort of strike did you use? Were you able to perform this against a resistant opponent?

    I should also point out that any violence used after rendering someone unconscious or paralysed, although brutal, could very possibly be seen as illegal.
     

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